Maltodextrin Anyone?

[riskybiz007]

This goes along with my first belief of Maltodextrin as a complex carbohydrate. I was reading in Anablic Extreme, which they bash maltodextrin into a pulp there, that it really isn't a complex carbohydrate, and since it has a rating of 153 all it does is spike up your insulin and then insulin levels will come crashing down again. Same as if you ate sugar, big spike then insulin levels crash. If trying to lose weight this is not to your advantage at all.

 

[sweets]

thanks so much for the post. so would malto's be more within the simple carbs family, if that question even makes any sense. really, is any insulin spike achievable without the crash???? i don't really know what to take post workout. a few people have mentioned grape juice (too high carbs, i think), with dextrose also. would apple juice be a wiser choice, then, if trying to lose fat??? i like to drink a protein shake with flax but i need to put some type of fruit juice in it or i'll get nauseous (sp?)... and i only put in 4-6 oz. ===> not THAT bad, right

 

[Valdez]

post workout

either dextrose or regular table sugar (kool-aid) and whey protein. no flax post workout, no fat post workout. other times of day yes.

fruit after training would be alright too, but realize that fructose will take 45 min to be released into the system as blood sugar to be swept up by insulin. so in theory sucrose (table sugar) would be the best post workout carb because: sucrose= glucose+fructose so you would get carbs immediatly post workout and also 45 min later. so you should take that into account and eat some lean protein again later. In theory.

 

[chillin408]

Maltodextrins and dextrose are both glucose. Maltodextrins just means..i think.. maltose and dextrins together,maltose is two glucose's and dextrins are glucose polymers,length varies. So you have strands of glucose molecules with maltodextrins opposed to just single glucose's like dextrose. Anyway complex (stands/polymers) versus simple doesnt matter. I have came to conclusion from reading other posts that u almost gotta ignore the terms complex and simple. Except very few cases their may be unique types of strands that may make a difference, but for the most part ,most of the time it doesnt. Instead of looking at it like malto's would be more in the simple carb family,this is just my opinon,i think its better to look it at like.. maltos are in the glucose family. And glucose's GI is high, Fructose's is low, gelactose's is low. Also dextrose,starch are also in the glucose family. when u have something with a combination of glucose and fructose like table sugar sucarose then the GI will be between glucose and fructose. That is why table sugar's GI is lower that glucose based carbs. So their really would not be any difference using dextrose(glucose) versus maltodextrins(glucose) in your MRP. The only difference is maltodextrins are strands of glucose,but that doesnt matter. Glyemic indem can be altered,when someone says oatmeal is a low glyemic carb, its really a low glyemic food ,because it has fat in it,so its not only a carb. I mean their really isnt a such a thing as a low glyemic carb except fructose gelactose,and a few others almost unheard of that i cant think of the names. But glucose is not a low glyemic carb,but if u were to have 20 grams of glucose with a tablespoon of flax oil and 10 grams of fiber then maybe it would be considered a low glyemic carb(food).
Since both fat and fiber lower GI.


Grape juice has a higher GI because it has more glucose in it,and is better for post workout. Apple juice has more fructose ,and is a worse choice, i think its because fructose tends to replenish liver glyocgen,not muscle glyocgen.

heres a good thread,also any old cockdezl post is good to read,if u just type in his name in the achive search and maybe type in glucose or maltodextrin or something,he gives super explanations and very to understand,his posts are like scripture in my opinion
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?postid=53590#post53590

The old board is searchable too,its the search button on the uppper right hand side of the screen under "my elitefitness" choices.its the one under banner exchange,its not the same search as the search next to faq,the one on top searches the old board achives

 

[sweets]

damn chillin... you are good it took lots of focus here, but i think i digested all of that info. really guys, thank you so much for clearing that up for me. valdez, i just got the flax last week and decided to add it to my shakes. i didn't take into account that fat slows down absorption rates. i guess that's why you say no fat postworkout? duh... i'm slipping. grrrrr... and that's twice now.

so basically, post-workout your muscles need a quick fix. now i know glucose is fair game. but isn't dextrose is a simpler form of sugar, though. well, does it even make a difference if i choose one over the other???

QUESTION: are we just simply just aiming for an insulin spike, post workout???

so what about the fructose??? it will release into your system 45 min later. this is obviously a terrible choice in the evening, then. (i'm a total carb regulator over here. sorry if you disagree with that school of thought)

bottom line: early in the day post workout: glucose + fructose is ok (like yummy grape juice); later in the evening postworkout: glucose is ok but not fructose. (fructose... i love the stuff but just to clarify, it IS only optional, right???) it's the consumption of lean protein about 60-90 min later that really what keeps your diet in check???

okay, maybe i'm not all that clear yet. i got out with a few questions but i'm learning. i'm at school now but i'll run a search later tonight when i get home. thanks again. i hope someday i'll be able to return the knowledge. until then... keep it sweet... but only post workout

 

[sweets]

...hey, remember me.

bump.

 

[chillin408]

i was writting a response about an hour ago when all of a sudden i got cut off(i have aol) as i was finishing and i lost it all,wasted 20 min for nothing. Anyway, dextrose(glucose) is the simplier form of maltodextrin(strands of glucose). Choosing the simplier form dextrose will not speed up absorption since GI rating is not altered by strand length in most cases. I am pretty sure of this... i have heard conflicting views one person said dextrose 150, maltodextrins 144, but then later someone said both the same, i think they are both the same,150 to 150. So, for example, if you have 500 glucose molecolues in a strand connected together(maltodextrins/glucose polymers) it will cause just as much of an insulin spike as 500 single glucose molecules(dextrose) already broken down. I dont think it makes a difference whether you choose one over the other,dextrose is usually cheaper, because the supplement companies have brainwashed people into thinking that any complex carb(like maltodextrins) are good,so in alot of cases they cost more. Because of that i use dextrose. Their was a thread a few months ago sugars, and someone gave an explanation about some maltodextrins, but i cant find that thread anymore. Anyway for post workout most people suggest glucose and protein, and avoiding fat and fiber. If you have whey protein concentrate,it has 1-2 grams of fat per serving,but thats no big deal, i mean most people suggest u dont ad fat or fiber like flax oil , or eating oatmeal. I'm not sure how many post workout "windows" their are, but i know one for sure. I read a post before where someoen suggested 100 grams of carbs mixed with 50 grams of protein post workout. Many people also suggest having another meal about 90 minutes after that or whenever you feel hungery. That meal is just a normal meal that has protein and fat ,and can have fiber,but u dont need to limmit yourself to fat and fiber like u do in the first meal. An example second post workout meal would be steak and brocceli, just an example.. that has fat,protein and fiber. I'm not sure about fructose,i'd like to know, i think moderate amounts of it throught the day are ok. But too much at one time is not good,but i dont know how that compares to too much glucose for example,i dont know which is a better choice if you were gonna go over board on one. High Fiber meals are benefical during the day to lower GI of your meal.

 

[sweets]

hey chillin. i'm sorry you lost your first post. (it happens to me too). but thanks for coming back. the more you info you guys feed me, i think the hungrier i get.

i have a theory: (this one's on fructose) ... bear with me. i'm just an inquisitive cat.
post-workout: need to quickly replenish glycogen stores in order for quick recovery. therefore, we choose
high GI= insulin spike. (glucose good, dextrose even better because GI is higher. *fructose-not so sure just yet*. protein good. BUT NO FAT, NO FIBER.) got it.

but my curiosity (i'm also a curious cat ) on fructose remains... just because my sweet tooth is very persistent... and demanding. here goes...

(ok, this is my theory)
complex carbs are absorbed by the body very slowly, allowing an individual more time to burn them off. (for this reason, complex are the bb's preferred choice of carbs). but now, and this is just me breaking it down in my pretty little head, if fructose moves just as slowly, being released into the blood or absorbed by the body a whopping 45 min later, wouldn't this also allow an individual more time to burn it off??? then this has got to be something perfectly fine to consume for breakfast(but i'm talking tiny portions like 1/2 banana or 4-6 oz of fruit juice-->cuz that's what i like in my protein shakes and in my oatmeal) mid-morning or PRE-workout, right. then you're guaranteed to burn it off. (but stop me if i'm talking the shiznit, ok)

wait. about the pre-workout... would this mean that your spiking your insulin levels pre-workout when you actually shouldn't; when you should actually be working out on low glycogen to hit fat stores more quickly??? i may have just answered my own question. omg. am i talking to myself now. what is this coming to.

basically, it boils down to this. i need fruit. i'm sorry. i just do. but it's just in the morning and with a shake later in the day, i guess i have to make it post-workout. i'll yack if i have my protein shakes with just water. ill. and my oatmeal, i make it a shake... yes, with 3/4 cup of skim mlk + 4 oz of pineapple juice. am i evil. will i still be able to cut this way. my diet is really clean, imo. i just have so many questions. i don't even know where to start. i need a piece a jk. that was little yoke for ya. ciao

 

[sweets]

found a thread: insulin spiking 101 (sorry, i hadn't searched yet) i have so many questions that i just got carried away in asking. well, this may just have some possible answers for me. hey, chillin, thanks for all your generous and knowledgeable contributions, mister scientist man. (everyone here... well, obviously not "everyone"... is so educated in the sciences. i need to get to work, huh) i'll kit if i find anything i think might interest you.

 

[chillin408]

i really dont know that much about what u asked,all the info i said above i got from looking at old posts on this board. I dont even know whether or not all carbs go to glucose or just sugars but i think glucose,the maltodextrin topic is just comes up alot so i was able to answer. A good idea would be to look at cockdezl and mr bmj's old posts on fructose.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Dextrose = Glucose. Dextrose is the name that is used when it is commercially sold in products.

Maltose = 2 molecules of glucose (glucose + glucose).

Maltodextrins can be either low or high GI depending on their branching. Typically, a straight chain maltodextrin will have a higher/high GI, while a branched chain maltodextrin will have a lower/low GI rating. Of course, there are probably some exceptions. Most companies do not label which type of maltodextrins they are using in their products, therefore it is hard to determine which you are receiving. Some of the branched chain maltodextrins are often used in "diet" meal replacement because of their low GI characteristics. Dan Duchaine mentioned that he used these maltodextrins in his "diet" meal replacements specifically for this reason. Of course, the high GI maltodextrins can be used to take advantage of their quick digesting characteristics as well.

Fructose is not recommended because only so much of it can be digested in a given amount of time without the excess being turned into fat. I have read that the average amount that most people can digest is somewhere around 50 grams (200 calories) per day. Of course, this will vary somewhat on each individual. Personally, I would stay away from fructose after a workout because of its low GI ratings. Dextrose and sucrose are superior in this regard. Fructose is fine as long as you are not eating over your limit. In fact, its slow digestion is usually of benefit with your last meal of the night with other slow digesting proteins and fats. It will help keep insulin manageable while keeping blood glucose present so that protein synthesis is continued. I like to eat apples because they have a manageable amount of fiber which also aids in lowering the GI of fructose. Also, I must add that not all fruits have high amounts of fructose within them. Generally, the fruits with the lower GI's will have the highest amount of fructose, but even this is not set in stone because of fiber, acid content, and anti-nutrients which also lower GI's.
MR. BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

Cockdezl has given a run-down of how fructose is metabolized by the body on the womens board under Warlobo's post "sugar/White death" (not the exact name but something similar, I can't remember the exact title).
MR. BMJ

 

[maxb01]

Maltodextrins

maximuscle claims to use low GI maltodextrins, but what is the GI of low glycaemic maltodextrins? Is it really low, or is it just a little lower than high Gi ones?

What is best after a workout, maltodextrins or dextrose?

I had posted a thread about what to take after a workout to save on supplement, it's called "saving on supplements", would you please give a look and answer, seen that you know so much on simple/complex carbs?

 

[Skinny but Ripped]

Real quick please - why does one need an insulin spike post-workout or any other time for that matter? In my long term understanding (I used to be a physilogy major for one semester), insulin is administered by the body into the blood stream to reduce amount of glucose if its levels go higher then "normal". SO insulin basically gets relaeased and like a wild animal atacks glucose and wipes it out at once! More then that, it does that by converting it and storing it as fat. So why in the world is it a good thing. Althouhg I could be mistaking somewhere. Please explain.

 

[Skinny but Ripped]

Wow ... I just noticed how old this thread really is. Oh welll lets get it going again. I have another question. If either Malto or dextro, are simply glucose. Then would it be the same as just drinking a glass of grape juice or even better mix it with my post-WO Whey and have a grape juice protein shake. Will the glucose in grape juice work the same as the other fancy 2 - Maltodextrine or Dextros?

 

[d3track]

malto is a corn starch
stil breaks down fast
the point of insulin spikes is to force glycogen into the drained muscles so they can go to work on repairing themselves
get teh glyco an dprotien into em and they can get bigger stronger
simple carbs and whey work well pwo, as they are fast digesting, and at this time your body is liek a giant sponge soaking up all the nutrients it can