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upper and inner chest

COOKSTER

New member
Hi guys, has anyone got any tips for my chest workout!
I have good lower and outer pecs, but have AWFUL upper and inner pecs, so u can imagine how this looks.

I already concentrate on incline bench & d/bell presses as well as incline flyes and cable cross overs.

Also i am a hard gainer with biceps ( my worst bodypart, I conc. on barbell curls and preachers ).

I train each bodypart once a week.

CAN ANYONE GIVE ME ADVICE.

Thanks guys!!
 
Do not try to build the inner pecs. That's impossible. Instead you must realize the truth: There are no inner pecs.

:D
 
That was some real good help you just gave. Cookster, I am in the same boat as you are. Just can't get the upper chest to start developing. I am trying different things and will let you know how it goes. Might take a little time though.
 
You can't be a hardgainer on one bodypart - either you ahave trouble packin' on weight, or not. If you have trouble w/ biceps, focus on what are you doin', analyze and try to change exercises, tempo, resting time, or even the whole approach - you might be doin' too many exercises, or so. Train smart...
As to the pecs, I would try different approaches as well, for example try different grip width, starting workout with inclines, concentrate on proper form (this was my biggest mistake keepin' me out of the good upper pecs).
-My opinion-
 
I would have to disagree. You can be a hardgainer if you are not hitting that area exactly right. Or doing something wrong. I think that I may be doing something wrong that is why I am trying different methods of alleviating the problem. I have no problem packing on some weight but just not packing it on all over, mind you I have neglected legs quite frequently and this is another problem I am correcting. Maybe the leg thing will help me pack on muscle on my upper chest but I doubt it. I just need to do more for the upper chest than that.
 
Why must everyone make things so complicated? I have built a big and strong chest from doing barbell flat bench and barbell incline bench. Plain and simple. The heck with cables, flyes, and chrome plated machines.

Do try this. Do your inclines with your hands only 24" apart... This will feel strange for about 2 weeks...but then you will see your upper and inner chest grow a bit.

B True
 
Cackerot69 said:
You cannot target the "upper", "inner", "lower", "outer" pecs, period.

then explain why many of us(including me and my lower/inner chest) are underdeveloped in some areas of the muscle. By what you are saying, the muscle will grow evenly... many times, this is not the case.
 
Muscle shape is genetic.

The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion that it is possible to isolate one or more of these to the relative exclusion of the others in training, are among the most firmly entrenched myths in Strength Training and Bodybuilding circles. In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense. Even though it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do) because the pectoralis-major does originate from both the sternum and the proximal or sternal half of the clavicle along it’s anterior surface (it also has connections to the cartilages of all the true ribs with the frequent exception of the first and seventh, and to the Aponeurosis of the external oblique muscle), this is considered to be a common (though extensive) origin in terms of the mechanical function of the muscle. Thus the pectoralis-major is in fact for all practical purposes one continuous muscle with a common origin and insertion, and functions as a single force-producing unit. The terms upper, lower, inner and outer are imprecise and relevant only in order to make a vague subjective distinction between relative portions of the same muscle for descriptive purposes. They are vague and imprecise terms because there is no clearly delineated or universally defined border between them.
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions (as a Biomechanics Professor of mine once demonstrated to a bunch of us smart-ass know-it-all’s taking his course, using EMG analysis). When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion. Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps (which are referred to as “heads” by Anatomists and Biomechanists), because they share a common point of insertion in order for one head to shorten all must shorten. This only makes sense if you think about it because otherwise there would be “slack” in one when the other shortened, which as we know does not occur. Note that there are some special cases where one head of a muscle must actually lengthen when the other shortens (e.g. the posterior head of the deltoid in relation to the anterior head during the positive stroke of fly’s), the point however is that even in these special cases there is no “slack” because there is in fact contractile activity (whether concentric or eccentric) throughout the muscle.
That is not to say however, that all fibers in different areas, or heads are necessarily shortened to the same degree during a particular movement. Depending on the shape of the muscle, the joint geometry involved, and the specific movement being performed, fibers in one area of a muscle or head may be required to shorten more or less than in others (or even to lengthen) in order to complete the required movement. For example during a decline fly though muscle fibers in all regions of the pectoralis-major must shorten as the upper arm is drawn towards the median plane of the body, because of the angle of the arm in relation to the trunk the fibers in what we commonly refer to as the lower pecs will have shortened by a greater percentage of their overall length than those in the upper region of the muscle by the completion of the movement. Conversely when performing an incline fly there is greater shortening in the fibers towards the upper portion of the muscle than in the lower.
Many proponents of the so-called “isolation” approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the “target” region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation; but this is completely at odds with the cross-bridge model of muscle contraction which clearly shows that as fiber length decreases tension also declines due to increasing overlap and interference in the area of the cross-bridges. Some also contend that the fibers called upon to shorten to a greater degree tend to fatigue faster than others and that therefore there is greater overall fiber recruitment in the region where this occurs, and thus a greater stimulus to growth; but there is no evidence to suggest that a fiber fatigues faster in one position than in another in relation to other fibers in the same muscle. In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.
The ability to “isolate” a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are, and has been perpetuated by trade magazines and parroted throughout gyms everywhere. It is pure non-sense and completely ignores the applicable elements of physiology, anatomy, and physics in particular. Quite simply the science does not support it, and in most cases is completely at odds with the idea.
Regardless of the science however, many people will remain firmly convinced that muscle isolation is a reality because they can “feel” different movements more in one region of a muscle than in others. This I do not dispute, nor does science. There is in fact differentiated neural feedback from motor units depending on the relative length of the component fibers, and this feedback tends to be (or is interpreted by the brain as) more intense when the fibers in question are either shortened (contracted) or lengthened (stretched) in the extreme. However this has to do with proprioception (the ability to sense the orientation and relative position of your body in space by interpreting neural feedback related to muscle fiber length and joint position) and not tension, fatigue, or level of fiber recruitment. Unfortunately it has been seized upon and offered up as “evidence” by those looking to support their ideas by any means available.
Muscle shape is a function of genetics and degree of overall development. As you develop a muscle towards its potential, it does change in appearance (generally for the better) but always within the parameters defined by its inherent shape. A person who tends to have proportionately more mass towards the upper, lower, inner or outer region of his or her pectoralis-major will always have that tendency, though it may be more or less apparent at various stages in their development, and in most cases appears less pronounced as overall development proceeds. That is not to say that training a muscle group from multiple angles is totally without value. In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved. So by all means experiment with different angles in your training, but don’t expect to be able to correct so-called “unbalanced” muscles this way, or to target specific areas of a particular muscle. Work to develop each of your muscles as completely as possible and shape will take care of itself. If you want to worry about “shaping” you should pay more attention to the balance between different muscle groups and work to bring up any weak groups you may have in relation to the rest of your physique.
 
forget for a while flat bench and use online incline.
it helps


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A CHEST IS A CHEST!!!!!!

There is no outer, inner, upper, lower, middle, or any other form of "chest." There is only one kind of chest - CHEST!

-Warik
 
I guess I will cave and listen to the experts here. From now on I will only do decline for the rest of my life since that is the best.
 
I'D RATHER BE DEADLIFTING said:
Pennywise- I sense some sarcasm there. If you would take your head out of your ass and open your eyes, maybe you could learn something.
I am just using the logic put forth by a lengthy tome that was conflicting at best and did not help answer the original question. I may be wrong but I read in that response that different angles stimulate the muscle in different ways and then you can't isolate. It might not be isolation but you are definitely working the muscle and stimulating it in different ways.
 
there are angles of resistance which take you out of the repetitive groove of say, the flat bench press. different motions increase neuromuscular pathways and thus increase coordination and the propensity for increased fiber recruitment. thats why we have different exercises for different angles of "attack" on the muscle. hehe.
 
Now that sounds better. Short and sweet. Anyway, I will just agree to disagree for now. You are not going to beat it into my head because I know what works for me and how it feels for ME.
 
need exercise to tone my third serratus muscle (on the right side) LMFAO

OMG! you guys (most) are pretty retarded. go into the gym and do heavy compound movements 2 exercises followed by 1 or 2 isolation movements. pick whatever exercise you are strong at and feel comfortable with, use your own brain. train hard, get sore, grow. fucking easy enough.

I cannot believe this thread degenerated into an argument on wether a certain exercise will work what area of some bodypart, duh!
 
You CAN target upper pecs!!! How do you guys come out and blatently say, you cant target certain areas of the pecs. Thats like saying you cant target certain parts of your back, its bullshit, because I've done it. If you look at anybody with a full chest thats someone that does serious inclines. Lack of inclines causes the chest to look smooth. Look at Franco . He had a split in his pecs that seperated his uppers from lowers. I agree that genetics have a huge say but to get thickness in the upper and inner area will NOT be achieved by flat bench pressing alone. Once I got to a point where I was cranking out 12 reps with 225 on incline my chest fucking exploded and got ripped at the same time. For me, I was able to isolate the area and am currently doing flat bench last. I go heavy with my flyes(always incline) and hit wieghted dips for my lowers. Muscles are three dimensional, work them as such. NUF SAID!!
 
Some people are stupid...

"You CAN target upper pecs!!! How do you guys come out and blatently say, you cant target certain areas of the pecs. Thats like saying you cant target certain parts of your back, its bullshit, because I've done it."

How can i say that you cannot target the upper and lower pecs? Maybe becuase i understand anatomy and don't get all of my information from Arnolds Encyclopedia. You can target a few different muscles in your back, you can target the lats, traps, rear delts, and the spinal erectors, other than that...nope. You cannot target the "lower lats", for example.

"If you look at anybody with a full chest thats someone that does serious inclines."

Now this statement is just fucking stupid. Even if it was possible to target the upper chest (which it isn't), the lower chest still makes up the bulk of the chest, so you would still be best to focus on flat/decline work. Although none of this matter, as the chest is just, in all functional sense, one muscle.

"Look at Franco . He had a split in his pecs that seperated his uppers from lowers. I agree that genetics have a huge say but to get thickness in the upper and inner area will NOT be achieved by flat bench pressing alone."

Genetics has EVERYTHING to do with it, period.

"For me, I was able to isolate the area and am currently doing flat bench last. I go heavy with my flyes(always incline) and hit wieghted dips for my lowers. Muscles are three dimensional, work them as such. NUF SAID!!"

LOL!

"I guess I will cave and listen to the experts here. From now on I will only do decline for the rest of my life since that is the best."

Decline/Dips are the best exercise for the pecs, as they most closely mimic the pecs primary function - pushing the arms across the body and downward.

"I am just using the logic put forth by a lengthy tome that was conflicting at best and did not help answer the original question. I may be wrong but I read in that response that different angles stimulate the muscle in different ways and then you can't isolate. It might not be isolation but you are definitely working the muscle and stimulating it in different ways."

Yes, different movements will recruit different motor units, that's about it. That was not the issue, the issue was if you can target the upper and lower chest as a serperate muscle - and you cannot.

"Crack....great post! Thanks and keep them coming."

Will do :)
 
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Don't know how you do decline/dips but my arms do not cross my body. They do go downward though. Maybe you should brush up on that anatomy.
 
Now i have to teach you the english language, too?

Lets look at the definition of "across":

across [1] (adverb)

[Middle English acros, from Anglo-French an crois, from an in (from Latin in) + crois cross, from Latin crux]

First appeared 14th Century

1 : in a position reaching from one side to the other : CROSSWISE

2 : to or on the opposite side


Now, one side to the other. In a dip your arms go from the top of your body, pushing downward towards your lower body. This would be considered "across". In a dip, the arms go across the body in a vertical plane.

You could also go across the outside of the body, to the inside, as with a flye.

Do you understand?
 
Thanks for the lesson, but when you say downwards and across you could confuse some people into thinking you are talking about flyes which in the context of your use, you were.
 
Whatever. I tried to drop it but when you keep calling people stupid it will only make you look even more so. I could sit here and write five thousand words and sound hypocritical also but I don't waste my efforts as much as some people who cracked an anatomy book open once. I know what works for me, and only me, just like I stated above. So keep talking out of your ass and making yourself even less credible by just replying with a smooth one liner.
 
BIG FUCK YOU TO THE CACK, PENNYWISE READ THIS

ok first thing is dont listen to this cack guy or the others, they must be retarded.
lets just ignore the stupid fuckfaces for now.

i have targeted specific areas on my chest to grow and the next day (SURPRISE!!!!!!!!) they did grow (uuh, dohh).
i guess it must have been a miracle or something, since its "techincally" impossible according to your fucking encyclopedia.

ill give some examples...
say i wanted to target my upper-outer chest, i would do incline widest grip possible presses. no other part of my chest will grow when i do them. only the upper-outer chest.
say i wanted to target my upper-inner chest, i would do incline hand-to-hand(both hands touching) presses.
both the upper-inner and middle-upper-inner part of the chest will grow.

u think im lying for the fuk of it or something?
maybe im hallucinating! yeah i think thats right, im just imagining it right?
my chest didnt grow. it must a placebo effect.

A BIG FUCK YOU TO ALL THE RETARDS MAKING IT HARD FOR THIS KID.

if u want your inner-upper chest to grow then i suggest you do what i did, the hand-to-hand incilne presses and let the barbell down to your neck area. if u cant balance it just yet then u can use the smith machine or any machine that balances the barbell. this will definately stimulate it, you will see for yourself.
 
just sounds like you are using 2-3 different exercises to actually give yourself the full range of motion you arent getting with the standard straight bar bench press. you probably werent getting a full contraction and hence your muscle isnt getting its full stimulation. to each his own, if you like to do more work than is necessary, go for it.

if you want to stop wasting your time, pick up those things called dumbells and use em nice and slow throughout the range of motion. press and flye.

no need for hand to hand, clavicle/skull crusher presses and ultra wide grip wrist wreckers.

"its like dog biting a stone....its just stupid."
 
I dont know how long crackrot has been training but it sounds to me as if your a pretty young kid that has not been around the block very long. If you read most of these posts people are making testimonials based on their own experiences. Calling people stupid leads me to believe that you really dont have a place on this board. If your intention is to mock, then take it to another site. As for targeting your upper and inner chest, you most certainly can . How the hell can you come out and say for example, that you cant target certain parts of your back. That is the remark of a very unseasoned lifter. You mean to tell me if I do hyperextensions Im going to hit my upper back, get real. Yes, genetics have a great role in the type of physique you have but I have yet to see anyone with a great chest that does not hit incline presses and flyes intensly, if any names come to mind please enlighten me! Thats it for this post, its beginning to tire me.
 
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I am in the same boat as the original poster... and now I am confused. If I go hard with one motion that is suppose to isolate my upper chest or inner chest, will that portion of my chest feel sorer?

I just always assumed that the clavical and sternal heads of the major pectoralis were separated enough that by changing the angle, even if they contracted at the same time, each bore a different proportion of the load.
 
u guys dont get wat hes saying. hes saying that if u contract ur chest muscle. the entire muscle will contract regardless of where the force of the weight is coming from or how ur holding the weight. which is true. and does make it impossible to isolate a part of the muscle. working the muscle in different ways has benefits. it encourages overall growth of the muscle. because ur stimulating the muscle in a different manner. if u just did flat bench. ur muscles growth would slow because it gets used to the movement. to prove the point. try doing ur flat bench first. then do incline immeadiately after. then the next week. do incline first and ur flat bench immeadiately after. if they were different muscles. ur lifts should be the same. but i kno from experience. theyre not. if u flat bench first. ur incline will be weaker. if u incline first. ur flat will be weaker. however if u bench press and then did curls. ur lifts would be exactly the same regardless of the order. the reason some people have more developed outer. and mroe developed inner is genetic. its just how ur chest grows. if u keep working ur chest it will eventually fully develop. people just grow differently. but the helpmepls guy is full of shit. id love to know what kind of steroid hes taking if he sees noticable growth the day after he works a muscle. and hes such a freak that he can control which part grows week to week. idk why hes nto competin for Mr. O this year.
 
FYI, the thread is 7 years old. Thanks for reviving it, lol.

Look at the anatomy of the chest. There is a pectoralis major and minor. The pectoralis minor is the upper chest. You CAN train the uper chest more directly with incline presses.

A close grip bench will squeeze the inner part of the pectoralis major, and fill it in. Obvioulsy there is not an inner pectoral muscle, there is just upper and lower, but a closer grip press will cause the pectoralis major cells on the inner part of the chest to grow and fill in better.
 
i think crackerot69 is going to have a difficult time building his chest with his scientific information. i started just doing flat bench in my garage for about 4 months and the middle of my chest was built decently, but my chest still looked bad because it was just one small part of my chest that was built. the fact of the matter is that your pecs are a big muscle and different exercises need to be done to build different parts of that muscle, if you want real advice visit a site like bodybuilding.com, i wouldn't go check a science forum like crarckerot69 did. there is definitely an inner lower and upper chest. I found this out when i joined a gym and started doing decline press, incline press, incline dumbells, incline flys, decline flys, flat bench, flat dumbells etc. when i started doing all these exercises along with eating 3 chicken breast for dinner, 8 eggs for breakfast, and lots of lunch meat on a sandwich for lunch and a whey protien supplement after lifting my entire pecs got huge, and so for i have gained 25 pounds, none of which are fat. if you are having problems gaining mass on your upper pecs i would suggest think about your diet, but most importantly add some weight on to your incline press. i am constantly adding weight to my incline press, i aim for 4 sets, 8 reps on the first set, and usually 5 reps on the last set, i have seen some serious restults within the last 8 months or so. dont listen to these people who say there is no such thing as inner outer and lower chest, my guess is they dont have much muscle, theyre probably either fat or super scrawny. have a high protien diet, eat carbohydrates before you lift, eat lots of protien after you lift, high instensity workout, heavy weight to gain that mass, work every part of the chest, and if your not sore for atleast 2 days after your workout then you're not working hard enough. i am in the gym for atleast an hour and 45 minutes working only my pecs 2-3 days a week, usually 2 because i get really sore. i have seen serious results by doing these things, i would suggest checking out bodybuilding.com
 
I really can't stand little kids getting on here trying to sound like college professors. Crackrot, you forget that you aren't preaching to uneducated retards who have no experience with this issue (unlike the people you undoubtedly surround yourself with). And by the way..., here is a suggestion if you want to be a guru on this subject. Get a loan, go to college and enroll in the following classes:

1-Anatomy
2-Physiology
3-Bio-Mechanics
4-Kinesiology
5-Microbiology

After you have taken these courses at a top University, and passed with at least a B average, get back on here and tell us how wrong you were...., dumbass.

Now to answer the issue at hand. Yes bros, the pectorals (term is plural mind you and taken straight from a medical school anatomy book) CAN be trained to shift EMPHASIS to different areas of the tissue. To those of you who doubt this point..., I challenge you to try my following suggestions for UPPER pec emphasis using incline barbell presses, with NO OTHER CHEST WORK. After 24-48 hrs, you WILL have DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness for those like Crackrot who are uneducated and inexperienced on the topic of bodybuilding science) in the pectoral tissue around and inferior to the clavicle bones, commonly referred to as the "upper pecs." You will NOT have ANY DOMS in or around the tissue under the nipple area, commonly referred to as the "lower pecs." If your theory that the entirety of the tissue within the pectorals is worked evenly regardless of angle and/or exercise choice, then this would be an impossibility. The entirety of the tissue from clavicle to rib, and sternum to humerus would experience DOMS.

UPPER PECS:
1-Always do Incline barbell bench presses first in your chest routine.
2-Make sure your body maintains the angle at which the bench is constructed throughout your range of motion. I see guys all the time arching their backs and raising their asses up off the bench because they are using too much weight. That will change the angle at which gravity is hitting the body, shifting the emphasis to include more lower pecs. Keep that ass against the pad.
3-Use a lighter weight, slower cadence (3sec negative w/ a 2sec positive), a FULL range of motion, and maintain this protocol until you reach positive failure around the 6-9 rep range. (Use a spotter please!)
4-Roll your shoulder blades up+back+down, to shift the anterior deltoid head into a less dominant position.
5-Don't bring the bar down to your nipples. Bring the bar down toward you clavicles, and then press the bar up in a slight arc so that at the top of the rep it is right above your mouth.

Follow these recommendations and I guarantee you will see and feel the difference in your upper pecs.

For your inner pectorals, the main thing is getting a peak contraction. This is best achieved by using a cybex chest press machine which brings your hands in closer together as you press the weight away from your body. Most gyms have some type of this machine if you live in a big enough city.

Secondly, allot of experts on this issue recommend using a slightly narrower grip to shift some of the pressure away from the shoulder joint. This in turn will shift the pressure toward your sternum, which is the area in question. It can't hurt to try that theory seeing as the less stress on the shoulder joint the better IMO.
 
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Why must everyone make things so complicated? I have built a big and strong chest from doing barbell flat bench and barbell incline bench. Plain and simple. The heck with cables, flyes, and chrome plated machines.


Do try this. Do your inclines with your hands only 24" apart... This will feel strange for about 2 weeks...but then you will see your upper and inner chest grow a bit.

B True

:evil:
 
u guys dont get wat hes saying. hes saying that if u contract ur chest muscle. the entire muscle will contract regardless of where the force of the weight is coming from or how ur holding the weight. which is true. and does make it impossible to isolate a part of the muscle. working the muscle in different ways has benefits. it encourages overall growth of the muscle. because ur stimulating the muscle in a different manner. if u just did flat bench. ur muscles growth would slow because it gets used to the movement. to prove the point. try doing ur flat bench first. then do incline immeadiately after. then the next week. do incline first and ur flat bench immeadiately after. if they were different muscles. ur lifts should be the same. but i kno from experience. theyre not. if u flat bench first. ur incline will be weaker. if u incline first. ur flat will be weaker. however if u bench press and then did curls. ur lifts would be exactly the same regardless of the order. the reason some people have more developed outer. and mroe developed inner is genetic. its just how ur chest grows. if u keep working ur chest it will eventually fully develop. people just grow differently. but the helpmepls guy is full of shit. id love to know what kind of steroid hes taking if he sees noticable growth the day after he works a muscle. and hes such a freak that he can control which part grows week to week. idk why hes nto competin for Mr. O this year.



So based on your faulty rational, your triceps are part of your chest muscle as well. As well as you anterior deltoid head. Right? I mean if I do chest first and then triceps, my resulting "lifts" are different than if I do triceps and then chest! Also if I shift the order of triceps/deltoids, my resulting "lifts" will be different so they are ALL THE SAME MUSCLE! BRILLIANT! I guess we need to rewrite the medical books huh professor?

Furthermore based on your ridiculous, uneducated
logic, the Vastus Lateralis, Vastus Medialis, Vastus Intermedialis, and Rectus Femorus are also all the same muscle too!

The Pectorals are a MUSCLE GROUP RETARD! They work together which is why one gets fatigued when emphasizing the other! Same with your Quadriceps. They are a MUSCLE GROUP! They all work together! You can't emphasize one without fatiguing the other three because bio-mechanically they work in unison! JUST LIKE THE PECTORALS!

People like this should be kicked off the board. What if someone reads this garbage and believes it? It could cause them to train incorrectly for years before they realize that this guy was full of shit!

By the way..., call Dell because obviously your spell checker is NOT working properly.
 
This is getting heated lol.

I'm interested though, as I'd like to after the omega program I'm currently on do a brief stint improving my inner part of the upper chest.
 
here we go again!!!

-You can not target a specific area within a muscle fiber. ( a fiber contracts as a whole, balancing the stress along the entire fiber).
-You can target specific fibers, within a muscle.


Look at the direction that the muscle fibers run, within the muscle. In the case of the pectorals, the fibers run horizontal. This means we are able to target the inferior fibers, and the superior fibers. However, we can not target the medial or lateral aspects of the pectorals.

I'll use another example, Biceps - you can not target upper or lower areas within your biceps fibers. However you can target medial fibers and lateral fibers. Since the fibers of the biceps run vertically.
 
Chill out bro. Why are you attacking this guy? That post is six months old.

So based on your faulty rational, your triceps are part of your chest muscle as well. As well as you anterior deltoid head. Right? I mean if I do chest first and then triceps, my resulting "lifts" are different than if I do triceps and then chest! Also if I shift the order of triceps/deltoids, my resulting "lifts" will be different so they are ALL THE SAME MUSCLE! BRILLIANT! I guess we need to rewrite the medical books huh professor?

Furthermore based on your ridiculous, uneducated
logic, the Vastus Lateralis, Vastus Medialis, Vastus Intermedialis, and Rectus Femorus are also all the same muscle too!

The Pectorals are a MUSCLE GROUP RETARD! They work together which is why one gets fatigued when emphasizing the other! Same with your Quadriceps. They are a MUSCLE GROUP! They all work together! You can't emphasize one without fatiguing the other three because bio-mechanically they work in unison! JUST LIKE THE PECTORALS!

People like this should be kicked off the board. What if someone reads this garbage and believes it? It could cause them to train incorrectly for years before they realize that this guy was full of shit!

By the way..., call Dell because obviously your spell checker is NOT working properly.
 
Chill out bro. Why are you attacking this guy? That post is six months old.

heavydutyhit, I really like and appreciate that you are so passionate about training. It's refreshing actually. Just a couple of thigs to realize in here:

1) The first poster you're replying to hasn't posted here in 8 years, and the second poster you're replying to was a one-post wonder that made his only post here 5 months ago. These guys are long gone bro. lol.

2) A few things are done differently to keep discussions a bit more civil in this forum (all forums really, except chat & conversation - we give more leeway there). While we like having opposing points of view debates here, let's refrain from calling people names like, "dumbass". Keep it civil.

Thanks again for your input bro! I like it, and hope to see you keep posting more in here. I'm a Mentzer fan too btw. :)
 
Muscle shape is genetic.

The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion that it is possible to isolate one or more of these to the relative exclusion of the others in training, are among the most firmly entrenched myths in Strength Training and Bodybuilding circles. In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense. Even though it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do) because the pectoralis-major does originate from both the sternum and the proximal or sternal half of the clavicle along it’s anterior surface (it also has connections to the cartilages of all the true ribs with the frequent exception of the first and seventh, and to the Aponeurosis of the external oblique muscle), this is considered to be a common (though extensive) origin in terms of the mechanical function of the muscle. Thus the pectoralis-major is in fact for all practical purposes one continuous muscle with a common origin and insertion, and functions as a single force-producing unit. The terms upper, lower, inner and outer are imprecise and relevant only in order to make a vague subjective distinction between relative portions of the same muscle for descriptive purposes. They are vague and imprecise terms because there is no clearly delineated or universally defined border between them.
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions (as a Biomechanics Professor of mine once demonstrated to a bunch of us smart-ass know-it-all’s taking his course, using EMG analysis). When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion. Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps (which are referred to as “heads” by Anatomists and Biomechanists), because they share a common point of insertion in order for one head to shorten all must shorten. This only makes sense if you think about it because otherwise there would be “slack” in one when the other shortened, which as we know does not occur. Note that there are some special cases where one head of a muscle must actually lengthen when the other shortens (e.g. the posterior head of the deltoid in relation to the anterior head during the positive stroke of fly’s), the point however is that even in these special cases there is no “slack” because there is in fact contractile activity (whether concentric or eccentric) throughout the muscle.
That is not to say however, that all fibers in different areas, or heads are necessarily shortened to the same degree during a particular movement. Depending on the shape of the muscle, the joint geometry involved, and the specific movement being performed, fibers in one area of a muscle or head may be required to shorten more or less than in others (or even to lengthen) in order to complete the required movement. For example during a decline fly though muscle fibers in all regions of the pectoralis-major must shorten as the upper arm is drawn towards the median plane of the body, because of the angle of the arm in relation to the trunk the fibers in what we commonly refer to as the lower pecs will have shortened by a greater percentage of their overall length than those in the upper region of the muscle by the completion of the movement. Conversely when performing an incline fly there is greater shortening in the fibers towards the upper portion of the muscle than in the lower.
Many proponents of the so-called “isolation” approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the “target” region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation; but this is completely at odds with the cross-bridge model of muscle contraction which clearly shows that as fiber length decreases tension also declines due to increasing overlap and interference in the area of the cross-bridges. Some also contend that the fibers called upon to shorten to a greater degree tend to fatigue faster than others and that therefore there is greater overall fiber recruitment in the region where this occurs, and thus a greater stimulus to growth; but there is no evidence to suggest that a fiber fatigues faster in one position than in another in relation to other fibers in the same muscle. In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.
The ability to “isolate” a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are, and has been perpetuated by trade magazines and parroted throughout gyms everywhere. It is pure non-sense and completely ignores the applicable elements of physiology, anatomy, and physics in particular. Quite simply the science does not support it, and in most cases is completely at odds with the idea.
Regardless of the science however, many people will remain firmly convinced that muscle isolation is a reality because they can “feel” different movements more in one region of a muscle than in others. This I do not dispute, nor does science. There is in fact differentiated neural feedback from motor units depending on the relative length of the component fibers, and this feedback tends to be (or is interpreted by the brain as) more intense when the fibers in question are either shortened (contracted) or lengthened (stretched) in the extreme. However this has to do with proprioception (the ability to sense the orientation and relative position of your body in space by interpreting neural feedback related to muscle fiber length and joint position) and not tension, fatigue, or level of fiber recruitment. Unfortunately it has been seized upon and offered up as “evidence” by those looking to support their ideas by any means available.
Muscle shape is a function of genetics and degree of overall development. As you develop a muscle towards its potential, it does change in appearance (generally for the better) but always within the parameters defined by its inherent shape. A person who tends to have proportionately more mass towards the upper, lower, inner or outer region of his or her pectoralis-major will always have that tendency, though it may be more or less apparent at various stages in their development, and in most cases appears less pronounced as overall development proceeds. That is not to say that training a muscle group from multiple angles is totally without value. In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved. So by all means experiment with different angles in your training, but don’t expect to be able to correct so-called “unbalanced” muscles this way, or to target specific areas of a particular muscle. Work to develop each of your muscles as completely as possible and shape will take care of itself. If you want to worry about “shaping” you should pay more attention to the balance between different muscle groups and work to bring up any weak groups you may have in relation to the rest of your physique.

that was like reading a story lol but some good made points there, i too have a unbalanced look to my chest and when i tense the chest ya can clearly see the 'moob' effect taking place as my lower area of the pectorials protrudes out more than the upper, and ive always had this so i think its down to genetics, as you said. i keep my chest workout to flat bench, flat flys, and 3 push up variations (flat, incline and wide arm) and im just gonna hope this is enough workouts to build my chest up.
 
My pecs have always been a problem. Mine are not squared of at the bottom, and are kind of soft-looking even when I'm in the best shape (I'm at 5.3% bf). Veins show on my pecs, and I have very little gyno (just a small spot right around the nipples). The only thing I can tell you is that if I have ANY body fat on my torso, it will show up right away in between my pecs on my sternum, and the definition between them disappears. I'm satisfied fairly OK at 5.3% bf with my pecs definition, but no matter how bulked up I am, this is always the case with me. This is one problem I might consider implants or other surgical help for, if it were that important to me. But it's not that important to me at this point. As others above said, you can work your pecs all you want, and you will get them bigger, but evenly all over.

Charles
 
I know everyone on here says that you cannot target a specific area on your chest that you want to grow. Because i know you can work certain parts that will just not train certain parts as much, hence allowing that part to grow more.
 
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