My Dermacrine experience

[njmuscleguy]

Hey folks... yep, it's another Derma thread, but I promised I would give my honest opinion of the product, good or bad, just as I have done with other board-sponsored products in the past. So here it is...

My recent cycle was as follows:
Wks 1-9 Test Enth (Frontloaded with 1g, then went down to 750mg/wk)
Wks 1-4 Dbol 50mg ED
Wks 6-9 NPP 200mg /wk
Wks 1-10 Proviron 50mg /wk
Wks 1-11 Aromasin 12.5mg ED
HCG (Started on same day as last test shot at 500iu ED for 10 days)
IGF at 80mcg ED for 4 weeks (during PCT)

Some background: I have about 8-9 cycles under my belt, I'm 32yrs old. I've tried every variation of PCT you can think of, including Nolva, Clomid, and HCG. None of them have ever been satisfactory. I hated Nolva, it didn't work for me and it further suppressed my libido. Clomid worked a little better, but the sides (emotional stuff, floaters, abdominal pain) were intolerable. I've included Proviron and low-dose dbol in some of my PCT's... they were a temporary fix, but crash was inevitable after PCT was finished. I've tried every OTC product you can think of, particularly those aimed at increasing libido or helping natural test recovery. Most were bunk, some were temporary fixes at best.

As stated above, I ran HCG for 10 days while waiting for the test to clear my system (active life of test is 10-14 days). Several days after my last HCG shot (active life is 3-5 days), I was instructed to start Dermacrine (original formula). I also should mentioned that I've been running Tribex Gold (tribulus) since starting PCT. Tribulus has never impressed me, even high-potency stuff from Europe, but I've had several people swear by this brand, so I decided to try. My impression of Tribex: it seems to help a little with libido, nothing stellar.

So here's my impression of Dermacrine. Today marks Day 7 of Dermacrine use, which is a little over 3 weeks after my last test shot. Tyipcally I have always crashed at this point in past PCT's. I actually felt a slight jolt of energy and focus from the very start. Libido seemed to elevate too. Workouts were still strong. Yesterday and today, I've been a little sluggish (probably from lack of sleep... IGF also makes me feel that way too)... my workout last night wasn't so hot. I don't feel "crashed", just sluggish... but libido is still high(er). I'm hoping I will get back on track with some extra sleep. I like the fact that I'm not totally crashed (at least not yet anyway) and that I have any libido. Another big plus: NO SIDE EFFECTS!

So I will run the original Derma for 1 more week (2 weeks total), then switch over to the new Sustain version (as instructed) for 4 more weeks. Then I will get bloodwork shortly after that. My bloodwork after PCT always comes out pretty pitiful so I will have something to compare to. I should also mention that I paid for both bottles, so no one is putting me up to this.

So far so good, I will update again at the end of Week 2. Be glad to answer any questions.

 

[xrsist]

good to hear bro, keep us posted, especially on how the derma sustain goes cause i cant get the original derma sent over here. cheers

 

[njmuscleguy]

I also have to mention that I've been applying Derma to the lean, inside parts of my thighs and abdominal area (as opposed to my shoulders). 30 quirts per day. Something about their being more receptors in the shoulders that would convert DHEA to test, thereby possibly suppressing the body from jumpstarting its own natural test.

Oh, and I've also noticed that I've been having experiencing sweats in the past 7 days, (more so at night) and I didn't even sweat like this while "on".

Acne on my back & shoulders has flared up a bit too, which never happens while "on"... HCG makes me break out like crazy.

I take these both as signs that *something* is happening.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Yes, the dermacrine will elicit a thermogenic response partly from the DHEA metabolites and party from the flavonoids increasing mitochondrial oxygen consumption.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

Yes, the dermacrine will elicit a thermogenic response partly from the DHEA metabolites and party from the flavonoids increasing mitochondrial oxygen consumption.

-Pp

So in English that explains why I'm sweating

 

[gjohnson5]

This is good. I am subscribed and hope the sustain will be a better PCT option for you

I also have to mention that I've been applying Derma to the lean, inside parts of my thighs and abdominal area (as opposed to my shoulders). 30 quirts per day. Something about their being more receptors in the shoulders that would convert DHEA to test, thereby possibly suppressing the body from jumpstarting its own natural test.

Oh, and I've also noticed that I've been having experiencing sweats in the past 7 days, (more so at night) and I didn't even sweat like this while "on".

Acne on my back & shoulders has flared up a bit too, which never happens while "on"... HCG makes me break out like crazy.

I take these both as signs that *something* is happening.

 

[njmuscleguy]

This is good. I am subscribed and hope the sustain will be a better PCT option for you

I hope so too.... your experience with Derma helped me take the plunge!

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to gjohnson5 again.

 

[gjohnson5]

My experience is opposite to yours to be honest. My experience with dermacrine was that I wanted a testosterone booster (as I don't juice) but I bet that If I did I would have similar issues that you have. Some OTC products give me hypogonadism as Jenetic put it. So if I did real test injections I probably would have similar issues

I hope so too.... your experience with Derma helped me take the plunge!

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to gjohnson5 again.

 

[njmuscleguy]

My experience is opposite to yours to be honest. My experience with dermacrine was that I wanted a testosterone booster (as I don't juice) but I bet that If I did I would have similar issues that you have. Some OTC products give me hypogonadism as Jenetic put it. So if I did real test injections I probably would have similar issues

Are your test levels lower than normal for your age range? For several years now, my levels have vascillated between just above normal to waaaay below normal... and I haven't been able to determine if it's because of continued AAS use along with botched-up PCT's, or if my natty levels are just declining. If Derma doesn't work (for longer than just a quick-fix), then I will have to look into HRT.

 

[armo72]

This post pretty much sums up my experience with PCT. Keep us posted NJ

 

[needtogetaas]

good thread bro.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Got a question for Pp: I'll be switching over to Sustain (from original formula) in a few days. I've been applying the original formula on the vascular parts of my legs (inside of thighs, etc). Where should I apply Sustain? Keep in mind that is is for PCT purposes, that is, to recover my body's natural test levels, not merely to boost them.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Got a question for Pp: I'll be switching over to Sustain (from original formula) in a few days. I've been applying the original formula on the vascular parts of my legs (inside of thighs, etc). Where should I apply Sustain? Keep in mind that is is for PCT purposes, that is, to recover my body's natural test levels, not merely to boost them.

The application site does matter with Sustain. Just rotate your application sites from upper to lower body.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

Ok, I'll give another update either tomorrow or Thursday (that will be 2 full weeks of original formula Derma). I read this post from Dmac in another derma thread:
________
Depends on who you talk to, some guys have had such an increase in test from applying dermacrine to the shoulders (where the DHEA gets converted to test by enzymes as it passes through the skin) that its like taking low dose test during PCT. The idea was that you put it on your stomach and legs for PCT where it doesn't convert to test while passing the skin.
________

Here are my questions: if you're applying it to the shoulders, thereby boosting test levels by dhea conversion, will the body still attempt to recover its natural test levels?
This test "boost", when not used for PCT purposes... it's not permanent, right?

So by applying to the stomach and legs, you are largely bypassing this dhea conversion? When used for PCT purposes, its effects *are* more permanent?

I'm applying it on the insides / vascular pars of my upper legs and lower abs... SOMETHING is going with my hormone levels because my back and shoulders (only) are breaking out fiercely. The only time this ever happens to me is when taking HCG, and I've been done with that for some time now.

 

[gjohnson5]

I will have to check

Are your test levels lower than normal for your age range? For several years now, my levels have vascillated between just above normal to waaaay below normal... and I haven't been able to determine if it's because of continued AAS use along with botched-up PCT's, or if my natty levels are just declining. If Derma doesn't work (for longer than just a quick-fix), then I will have to look into HRT.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Ok, I'll give another update either tomorrow or Thursday (that will be 2 full weeks of original formula Derma). I read this post from Dmac in another derma thread:
________
Depends on who you talk to, some guys have had such an increase in test from applying dermacrine to the shoulders (where the DHEA gets converted to test by enzymes as it passes through the skin) that its like taking low dose test during PCT. The idea was that you put it on your stomach and legs for PCT where it doesn't convert to test while passing the skin.
________

Here are my questions: if you're applying it to the shoulders, thereby boosting test levels by dhea conversion, will the body still attempt to recover its natural test levels?
This test "boost", when not used for PCT purposes... it's not permanent, right?

So by applying to the stomach and legs, you are largely bypassing this dhea conversion? When used for PCT purposes, its effects *are* more permanent?

I'm applying it on the insides / vascular pars of my upper legs and lower abs... SOMETHING is going with my hormone levels because my back and shoulders (only) are breaking out fiercely. The only time this ever happens to me is when taking HCG, and I've been done with that for some time now.

Yes, if you apply it to the shoulders it would convert more DHEA to test, so that would temporarily lower your LH and FSH because of they hypothalamus sensing the higher test levels….

The idea is that you limit the conversion of DHEA to test, and allow the DHEA and preg to exert their positive effects on sTAR, GH, IGF-1, ect… all of which indirectly can help regain hormonal function.

The new Derma Sustain does not have any of the pro-hormones and potential suppressive effects on the hypothalamus, and it has a higher concentration of Phyto-AI complex… so it will cause a stronger release of LH an FSH which will increase the size and function of your testes… getting you back inline.

-Pp

 

[Knights2]

so the derma sustain will actually helps the tesites grow back after a test cycle?

 

[Primordial Performance]

so the derma sustain will actually helps the tesites grow back after a test cycle?

Yes.

IMO, Derma Sustain will work better than either nolvadex or clomid for restoring testicular size and virility.

However it cannot serve a substitute for HCG/HMG if the testis have been left to turn to raisins. – this sort of condition would require treatment from multiple angels.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

Thanks Pp - just making sure I understand the whole picture. I will post complete update tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[Knights2]

good shit i might have to actually give this a try

 

[needtogetaas]

Yes, if you apply it to the shoulders it would convert more DHEA to test, so that would temporarily lower your LH and FSH because of they hypothalamus sensing the higher test levels….

The idea is that you limit the conversion of DHEA to test, and allow the DHEA and preg to exert their positive effects on sTAR, GH, IGF-1, ect… all of which indirectly can help regain hormonal function.

The new Derma Sustain does not have any of the pro-hormones and potential suppressive effects on the hypothalamus, and it has a higher concentration of Phyto-AI complex… so it will cause a stronger release of LH an FSH which will increase the size and function of your testes… getting you back inline.

-Pp

sounds good.

 

[Heartolearn22]

Hey folks... yep, it's another Derma thread, but I promised I would give my honest opinion of the product, good or bad, just as I have done with other board-sponsored products in the past. So here it is...

My recent cycle was as follows:
Wks 1-9 Test Enth (Frontloaded with 1g, then went down to 750mg/wk)
Wks 1-4 Dbol 50mg ED
Wks 6-9 NPP 200mg /wk
Wks 1-10 Proviron 50mg /wk
Wks 1-11 Aromasin 12.5mg ED
HCG (Started on same day as last test shot at 500iu ED for 10 days)
IGF at 80mcg ED for 4 weeks (during PCT)

Some background: I have about 8-9 cycles under my belt, I'm 32yrs old. I've tried every variation of PCT you can think of, including Nolva, Clomid, and HCG. None of them have ever been satisfactory. I hated Nolva, it didn't work for me and it further suppressed my libido. Clomid worked a little better, but the sides (emotional stuff, floaters, abdominal pain) were intolerable. I've included Proviron and low-dose dbol in some of my PCT's... they were a temporary fix, but crash was inevitable after PCT was finished. I've tried every OTC product you can think of, particularly those aimed at increasing libido or helping natural test recovery. Most were bunk, some were temporary fixes at best.

As stated above, I ran HCG for 10 days while waiting for the test to clear my system (active life of test is 10-14 days). Several days after my last HCG shot (active life is 3-5 days), I was instructed to start Dermacrine (original formula). I also should mentioned that I've been running Tribex Gold (tribulus) since starting PCT. Tribulus has never impressed me, even high-potency stuff from Europe, but I've had several people swear by this brand, so I decided to try. My impression of Tribex: it seems to help a little with libido, nothing stellar.

So here's my impression of Dermacrine. Today marks Day 7 of Dermacrine use, which is a little over 3 weeks after my last test shot. Tyipcally I have always crashed at this point in past PCT's. I actually felt a slight jolt of energy and focus from the very start. Libido seemed to elevate too. Workouts were still strong. Yesterday and today, I've been a little sluggish (probably from lack of sleep... IGF also makes me feel that way too)... my workout last night wasn't so hot. I don't feel "crashed", just sluggish... but libido is still high(er). I'm hoping I will get back on track with some extra sleep. I like the fact that I'm not totally crashed (at least not yet anyway) and that I have any libido. Another big plus: NO SIDE EFFECTS!

So I will run the original Derma for 1 more week (2 weeks total), then switch over to the new Sustain version (as instructed) for 4 more weeks. Then I will get bloodwork shortly after that. My bloodwork after PCT always comes out pretty pitiful so I will have something to compare to. I should also mention that I paid for both bottles, so no one is putting me up to this.

So far so good, I will update again at the end of Week 2. Be glad to answer any questions.

not shore if I want to try this yet but I will be watching your thread.

 

[njmuscleguy]

WEEK 2 UPDATE!

Hey folks... well, I've just wrapped up 2 weeks of using the original formula of Dermacrine... here's a quick summary of my PCT:

Last test enth shot was March 15th
HCG (500iu ED for 10 days) - started March 19th, finished March 28th
Took aromasin (12.5mg ED) until 5 days after last HCG shot
Started Dermacrine March 29th

So in the 2nd week, energy seemed to come back up for the most part - I think lack of sleep was the problem... my energy at the gym is ok... not as great as while "on", obviously, but not bad either... strength has gone down only slightly. Biggest thing I've noticed is libido is pretty damn good, especially given that I'm a month into PCT and given my horrible experiences in the past with PCT. I get morning wood more often than not.

I have gotten alot of acne too.... now I've been applying derma to my legs, but from what I understand, it could cause acne flare-up.

Also to consider, I've been taking Tribex Gold (tribulus) and ZMA at night. I've tried these products in the past with limited success, but I believe they're helping to an extent right now. They may also be contributing to the acne.

So I'm on Day 1 of Dermacrine Sustain. I'll be rotating application spots, since I don't have to worry about DHEA conversion. I'm hoping libido still stays as high as it's been, and I'm hoping my energy/strength levels stay where they are too.

I'll update again at Week 3.

Any questions or comments are welcome!

nj

 

[Stallbro]

WEEK 2 UPDATE!

Hey folks... well, I've just wrapped up 2 weeks of using the original formula of Dermacrine... here's a quick summary of my PCT:

Last test enth shot was March 15th
HCG (500iu ED for 10 days) - started March 19th, finished March 28th
Took aromasin (12.5mg ED) until 5 days after last HCG shot
Started Dermacrine March 29th

So in the 2nd week, energy seemed to come back up for the most part - I think lack of sleep was the problem... my energy at the gym is ok... not as great as while "on", obviously, but not bad either... strength has gone down only slightly. Biggest thing I've noticed is libido is pretty damn good, especially given that I'm a month into PCT and given my horrible experiences in the past with PCT. I get morning wood more often than not.

I have gotten alot of acne too.... now I've been applying derma to my legs, but from what I understand, it could cause acne flare-up.

Also to consider, I've been taking Tribex Gold (tribulus) and ZMA at night. I've tried these products in the past with limited success, but I believe they're helping to an extent right now. They may also be contributing to the acne.

So I'm on Day 1 of Dermacrine Sustain. I'll be rotating application spots, since I don't have to worry about DHEA conversion. I'm hoping libido still stays as high as it's been, and I'm hoping my energy/strength levels stay where they are too.

I'll update again at Week 3.

Any questions or comments are welcome!

nj

Thanks for sharing. I finished the original Derma maybe 10 days ago and I never had acne issues so I would look to other causes.

 

[njmuscleguy]

well, I interpret acne as something "hormonal" going on... I NEVER get acne during any cycle, no matter what I do.... the minute I start PCT, especially with HCG, I start to break out on my back like crazy and it lasts a couple months. I understand tribulus can cause acne... not sure about ZMA, but it's proported to help increase natty test levels, so that in turn could cause acne... by the same token, I'd imagine Dermacrine would cause acne... just my guess... It's not a big deal to me actually... I'd rather feel good and recover and deal with the acne

 

[needtogetaas]

Thanks for sharing. I finished the original Derma maybe 10 days ago and I never had acne issues so I would look to other causes.

I know of a few others that said they got some level of acne from the derma but
I think that the fact that they just came off a cycle should be factored in....I always get acne when I come of a cycle but not during.

 

[needtogetaas]

things still going good bro.

 

[Stryker1992]

well, I interpret acne as something "hormonal" going on... I NEVER get acne during any cycle, no matter what I do.... the minute I start PCT, especially with HCG, I start to break out on my back like crazy and it lasts a couple months. I understand tribulus can cause acne... not sure about ZMA, but it's proported to help increase natty test levels, so that in turn could cause acne... by the same token, I'd imagine Dermacrine would cause acne... just my guess... It's not a big deal to me actually... I'd rather feel good and recover and deal with the acne

Hey bro, I have got the sustain, I am interested in how it is going for you????

 

[njmuscleguy]

Hey bro, I have got the sustain, I am interested in how it is going for you????

Well, today is Day 4 on Sustain, after having been on the original Derma for 2 weeks.... I don't seem to have the same "kick" that I got from the original, which makes sense because there is no DHEA nor pregnenolone in Sustain. But at the same time, no crash, no drastic drop in energy or strength... acne is actually subsiding! All in all, PCT seems to be coming along nicely! Libido is still pretty good, still get morning wood (some days).... my boys also hang nicely most of the time, which wasn't the case for previous pct's.

Have you started yours yet? Let me (us) know how that works for you.

I hate to make any hasty decisions just yet, I will give my final opinions after having done bloodwork a while after finishing Derma.

 

[needtogetaas]

Well, today is Day 4 on Sustain, after having been on the original Derma for 2 weeks.... I don't seem to have the same "kick" that I got from the original, which makes sense because there is no DHEA nor pregnenolone in Sustain. But at the same time, no crash, no drastic drop in energy or strength... acne is actually subsiding! All in all, PCT seems to be coming along nicely! Libido is still pretty good, still get morning wood (some days).... my boys also hang nicely most of the time, which wasn't the case for previous pct's.

Have you started yours yet? Let me (us) know how that works for you.

I hate to make any hasty decisions just yet, I will give my final opinions after having done bloodwork a while after finishing Derma.

cool

 

[Stryker1992]

Well, today is Day 4 on Sustain, after having been on the original Derma for 2 weeks.... I don't seem to have the same "kick" that I got from the original, which makes sense because there is no DHEA nor pregnenolone in Sustain. But at the same time, no crash, no drastic drop in energy or strength... acne is actually subsiding! All in all, PCT seems to be coming along nicely! Libido is still pretty good, still get morning wood (some days).... my boys also hang nicely most of the time, which wasn't the case for previous pct's.

Have you started yours yet? Let me (us) know how that works for you.

I hate to make any hasty decisions just yet, I will give my final opinions after having done bloodwork a while after finishing Derma.

I have not bro, i about a week or so. are you holding your gains? using anything else with it?

 

[solidspine]

Okay you did your HGC for 10 days, how much did you do?

Did your nuts recover after the HGC?

If so why did you run the dermacide?

 

[njmuscleguy]

I have not bro, i about a week or so. are you holding your gains? using anything else with it?

I've lost a few pounds, but I think it was mostly water weight that I was holding... I feel leaner now... the weird thing is, more people are noticing that I look bigger now, after having lost the few pounds, though mentally, I'm freaking out because I feel I'm shrinking *grin*

I'm also taking Tribex Gold (high-potency tribulus), ZMA at night... glutamine several times a day... red blast before workouts and some extra CEE after workouts.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Okay you did your HGC for 10 days, how much did you do?

Did your nuts recover after the HGC?

If so why did you run the dermacide?

500iu per day, 10 days

nuts did recover... dermacrine's purpose isn't to get your nuts' shape back, it's to get them working properly again, to get your natty levels going again, much like clomid or nolva would do. I do have to say though, the derma has kept my boys fuller than usual, no complaints.

 

[gjohnson5]

Hey njfatguy

I've been using sesamin. The lignans in sesamin heavily reduce my acne while taking dhea products

Well, today is Day 4 on Sustain, after having been on the original Derma for 2 weeks.... I don't seem to have the same "kick" that I got from the original, which makes sense because there is no DHEA nor pregnenolone in Sustain. But at the same time, no crash, no drastic drop in energy or strength... acne is actually subsiding! All in all, PCT seems to be coming along nicely! Libido is still pretty good, still get morning wood (some days).... my boys also hang nicely most of the time, which wasn't the case for previous pct's.

Have you started yours yet? Let me (us) know how that works for you.

I hate to make any hasty decisions just yet, I will give my final opinions after having done bloodwork a while after finishing Derma.

 

[needtogetaas]

Hey njfatguy

I've been using sesamin. The lignans in sesamin heavily reduce my acne while taking dhea products

your so mean.lol

 

[njmuscleguy]

Hey njfatguy

I've been using sesamin. The lignans in sesamin heavily reduce my acne while taking dhea products

Hey smalljohnson *grin*

I've actually been taking sesamin regularly for a couple years now.... still broke out like crazy... thanks anyway though!

acne is actually subsiding a bit... might be because I switched over to Sustain version... I'm even applying Sustain to my shoulders/upper back & arms

 

[njmuscleguy]

Pp, two questions:

1) Is there a "shelf life" for Derma? I have used about 2 week's worth of original Derma and will have used 2, maybe 3 weeks-worth of Sustain. Then it's some time off before bloodwork, then spring/summer cycle. So I will have leftover that will sit for 5-6 months. Will it still be good after that?

2) How long should one wait after running a) original Derma, or b) Sustain, before getting bloodwork? I want to make sure that the results I get are not false readings due to anything I'm taking for PCT. Typically, I would wait 2 weeks after last clomid dosage before getting bloodwork.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Pp, two questions:

1) Is there a "shelf life" for Derma? I have used about 2 week's worth of original Derma and will have used 2, maybe 3 weeks-worth of Sustain. Then it's some time off before bloodwork, then spring/summer cycle. So I will have leftover that will sit for 5-6 months. Will it still be good after that?

2) How long should one wait after running a) original Derma, or b) Sustain, before getting bloodwork? I want to make sure that the results I get are not false readings due to anything I'm taking for PCT. Typically, I would wait 2 weeks after last clomid dosage before getting bloodwork.

The shelf-life is a couple years so you are fine there.

Run the sustain totally out. Remember, it does take a little time to recover so don’t rush it. Waiting 1-2 weeks for blood results is a good idea.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

No prob, I can do that... thanks!

 

[Stryker1992]

No prob, I can do that... thanks!

How is it going?

What week now?

 

[njmuscleguy]

How is it going?

What week now?

Tomorrow will have been 2 weeks original Derma + 2 weeks Sustain

So far, so good - don't want to jinx myself - haven't crashed yet... energy levels are up for the most part, libido is doin' pretty damn good.

Have you started yet?

 

[Stryker1992]

Tomorrow will have been 2 weeks original Derma + 2 weeks Sustain

So far, so good - don't want to jinx myself - haven't crashed yet... energy levels are up for the most part, libido is doin' pretty damn good.

Have you started yet?

In about 1.5 weeks bro. I keep looking at the bottle!

 

[njmuscleguy]

In about 1.5 weeks bro. I keep looking at the bottle!

hahah .... just DO IT already! you know you want to! I keep hearing that you could rub it on your nuts and you'll be fine

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

maybe this is a dumb question but I was wondering with they hype or the advice given out to use HCG during and post does derma have the same effect as HCG? I geuss is what i am asking can you use derma during your cycle and pct and recover just as easy post?

 

[njmuscleguy]

HCG during PCT definitely made it alot more difficult for me to recover... that's why I switched to doing it at the end of the cycle, while still running an AI to deal with estrogenic sides of HCG. Made PCT better... next time I will try running it during cycle. As for Derma, I guess you can say it acts a little like HCG.. it's kept my boys big & full and kept my libido up, 1 month into PCT

 

[Primordial Performance]

HCG during PCT definitely made it alot more difficult for me to recover... that's why I switched to doing it at the end of the cycle, while still running an AI to deal with estrogenic sides of HCG. Made PCT better... next time I will try running it during cycle. As for Derma, I guess you can say it acts a little like HCG.. it's kept my boys big & full and kept my libido up, 1 month into PCT

Derma acts like clomid/nolva and arimidex... but without the sides. Its the aromatase inhibition activity from the BZF/chrysin and SERM activity of the resveratrol.

Its not really like HCG. You still need to do HCG on cycle to keep your testes functional and ready for when you drop the AAS.

-Pp

 

[SpyWizard]

Derma acts like clomid/nolva and arimidex... but without the sides. Its the aromatase inhibition activity from the BZF/chrysin and SERM activity of the resveratrol.

Its not really like HCG. You still need to do HCG on cycle to keep your testes functional and ready for when you drop the AAS.

-Pp

I don't know why people fight with me about when to use HCG.. i always say during the cycle.. never after..

oh well..

 

[needtogetaas]

maybe this is a dumb question but I was wondering with they hype or the advice given out to use HCG during and post does derma have the same effect as HCG? I geuss is what i am asking can you use derma during your cycle and pct and recover just as easy post?

I would still use hcg during cycle man.....

 

[njmuscleguy]

WEEK 3 UPDATE!!!

Ok folks, I just finished my 3rd week of my current PCT regimen.

Still running Sustain. Also taking Tribex Gold, ZMA, RedBlast (before workouts), creatine, glutamine, Animal Packs Multi.

I have to say, still feeling pretty good! Strength is still decent, not comparable to what it's like during cycle, but I wouldn't expect that. Libido is still good. Energy level is still pretty good. I've started up IGF again 3 days ago, 80mcg ED shot bilaterally. I started IGF at beginning of this PCT, ran it for 12 days... took a week off, now starting up again. I'm sure that the IGF is making me tired on some days, plus lack of sleep gets me too. But otherwise, my energy is as good as I had hoped for. Acne on my back is still flaring, but if it means that I'm recovering and test levels are increasing, so be it.

Sustain seems to be doing the job about as nicely as the original Derma formula... short of having that "jacked-up libido" kinda feeling that the original Derma gave (I guess because of the DHEA). I'll be running Sustain for a few more weeks (probably 4 weeks total). Then take a break for a couple of weeks and get bloodwork.

 

[xrsist]

WEEK 3 UPDATE!!!

Ok folks, I just finished my 3rd week of my current PCT regimen.

Still running Sustain. Also taking Tribex Gold, ZMA, RedBlast (before workouts), creatine, glutamine, Animal Packs Multi.

I have to say, still feeling pretty good! Strength is still decent, not comparable to what it's like during cycle, but I wouldn't expect that. Libido is still good. Energy level is still pretty good. I've started up IGF again 3 days ago, 80mcg ED shot bilaterally. I started IGF at beginning of this PCT, ran it for 12 days... took a week off, now starting up again. I'm sure that the IGF is making me tired on some days, plus lack of sleep gets me too. But otherwise, my energy is as good as I had hoped for. Acne on my back is still flaring, but if it means that I'm recovering and test levels are increasing, so be it.

Sustain seems to be doing the job about as nicely as the original Derma formula... short of having that "jacked-up libido" kinda feeling that the original Derma gave (I guess because of the DHEA). I'll be running Sustain for a few more weeks (probably 4 weeks total). Then take a break for a couple of weeks and get bloodwork.

good to hear its going well brother, thanks for being my derma sustain lab rat, iv been waiting to see your results before i try it!

 

[njmuscleguy]

I don't mind... plus, I have vested interested, my RECOVERY!

I'm looking forward to the bloodwork - I hope it shows on paper what I'm actually feeling.

 

[GLEN]

hey keep me ppsted i just got two bottesl of sustain and derma

on yur blood work to

 

[fitwitlem]

that was very infirmational, i learned all about the product, maybe not all but no experience, good post and info fellas....Thanks

 

[njmuscleguy]

WEEK 4 UPDATE!!!

Ok folks, I've just finished my second week on Sustain (and 2 weeks original Derma before that).

Stil also taking Tribex Gold, ZMA, RedBlast or NO-Xplode (before workouts), creatine, glutamine, Animal Packs Multi. IGF at 80mcg on workout days only (which is every other day now).

The last few days have been a little rough...feeling kinda out of it...energy has been down... libido is so-so. Workouts aren't too shabby, but then again I've been loading up on stims beforehand. Allergies are starting to kick my ass, so that has alot to do with it. My diet has also been lousy the past week, so I'm sure that's also affecting how I feel. Could be not enough sleep.

I think Sustain is still doing its job - I'm pretty sure Sustain has nothing to do with how I feel right now... probably will bounce back in a few days. Still no complaints. I think I have another week's worth in the bottle... not sure the bottle will last me 4 weeks?

Will update again next week!

 

[Primordial Performance]

WEEK 4 UPDATE!!!

Ok folks, I've just finished my second week on Sustain (and 2 weeks original Derma before that).

Stil also taking Tribex Gold, ZMA, RedBlast or NO-Xplode (before workouts), creatine, glutamine, Animal Packs Multi. IGF at 80mcg on workout days only (which is every other day now).

The last few days have been a little rough...feeling kinda out of it...energy has been down... libido is so-so. Workouts aren't too shabby, but then again I've been loading up on stims beforehand. Allergies are starting to kick my ass, so that has alot to do with it. My diet has also been lousy the past week, so I'm sure that's also affecting how I feel. Could be not enough sleep.

I think Sustain is still doing its job - I'm pretty sure Sustain has nothing to do with how I feel right now... probably will bounce back in a few days. Still no complaints. I think I have another week's worth in the bottle... not sure the bottle will last me 4 weeks?

Will update again next week!

Njmuscle,

How has training been? Are you scaling back now that you're not on the juice?

I sometimes drive myself into the ground if I get training too frequently after a cycle. Its better for me to take a little time off, load up on good food, catch up on sleep, ect.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

Njmuscle,

How has training been? Are you scaling back now that you're not on the juice?

I sometimes drive myself into the ground if I get training too frequently after a cycle. Its better for me to take a little time off, load up on good food, catch up on sleep, ect.

-Pp

Well, I'm following a new workout routine which has me in the gym 4 days a week (1 on, 1 off), as opposed to 5-6 days straight as in before... plus I'm not lifting as heavy as I was while on, but that's not intentional... like I said, I think my "lifestyle" this week has been less than stellar, hence why I feel like crap... I'm hoping it will bounce back soon.

 

[artificialaspirations]

Which product is better for a non-user who wants to boost natty test?

I am currently using the original and must report a positive experience thus far.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Which product is better for a non-user who wants to boost natty test?

I am currently using the original and must report a positive experience thus far.

Its not quite that simple…

Dermacrine can get your total androgens higher than the Sustain… but the sustain may actually be able to get testosterone higher.

Some guys just don’t convert DHEA >> testosterone very well, so instead the DHEA converts to other androgens such as androstenedione, androstenediol, androstenetriol, ect…

Sustain stimulates the testes more. So, you may get a higher test boost… but Sustain probably wont boost total androgens as high as the original.

The bottom line is that the original derma is going to be more powerful for strength, recovery, immune system, ect… just because it has the added exogenous hormone support. The sustain is a little more ‘natural’ and should help more with getting your balls back to size, sex drive, erection strength, overall well being, ect.

-Pp

 

[GLEN]

dude i have been watching this thread, get your ASS UP AND EAT AND TRAIN!

 

[njmuscleguy]

dude i have been watching this thread, get your ASS UP AND EAT AND TRAIN!

Thanks for the motivation dude, I could use all the help I can get... I've been eating, but not always clean...gotta get out of this funk... and it's all going str8 to the spare tire! Training isn't too shabby. Energy / strength is still up and down.... few things I've noticed:

My balls have been aching for a few days.... only time that happens to me is when I'm on HCG, and that tells me the HCG is working to get my testes goin'... so maybe this is a good sign.

I don't think there is 4 weeks worth of stuff in Sustain at 40 sprays ED... guess I'll have to get another bottle. Tempted to use the rest of the original formula, but I don't want to screw around with natural recovery.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Thanks for the motivation dude, I could use all the help I can get... I've been eating, but not always clean...gotta get out of this funk... and it's all going str8 to the spare tire! Training isn't too shabby. Energy / strength is still up and down.... few things I've noticed:

My balls have been aching for a few days.... only time that happens to me is when I'm on HCG, and that tells me the HCG is working to get my testes goin'... so maybe this is a good sign.

I don't think there is 4 weeks worth of stuff in Sustain at 40 sprays ED... guess I'll have to get another bottle. Tempted to use the rest of the original formula, but I don't want to screw around with natural recovery.

You still on hCG? How much?

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

You still on hCG? How much?

-Pp

No, no HCG... I just said that my balls have been achin' for a few days this past week... and the only time ever that this happens is when I'm on HCG, which is an indicator to me that it's "kickstarting" them, if that makes sense. So I'm thinking that the Sustain is doing its thing to help recovery.

 

[Primordial Performance]

No, no HCG... I just said that my balls have been achin' for a few days this past week... and the only time ever that this happens is when I'm on HCG, which is an indicator to me that it's "kickstarting" them, if that makes sense. So I'm thinking that the Sustain is doing its thing to help recovery.

Oh, ok. Well thats good to hear then.

-Pp

 

[Mr.X]

Oh, ok. Well thats good to hear then.

-Pp

yup good news

 

[D_Mac]

No, no HCG... I just said that my balls have been achin' for a few days this past week... and the only time ever that this happens is when I'm on HCG, which is an indicator to me that it's "kickstarting" them, if that makes sense. So I'm thinking that the Sustain is doing its thing to help recovery.

those balls of yours still achin NJ?

 

[njmuscleguy]

nah, not any more... only lasted a few days.... kind of at a lull all around right now

 

[GLEN]

wtf!

cmon whats your results...

 

[njmuscleguy]

Week 5 UPDATE!

Just finished my 3rd week on Sustain (2 weeks prior - original Derma)

So this past week has been kinda rough... energy has been in the toilet, same with libido... just feeling exhausted, foggy at work... Ashamed to say, I missed 2 workout days this week.... my PCT regimen is still pretty much the same.

So of course this got me wondering what's going on... I narrowed it down to these possibilities:
1) Sustain has lost its "kick"
2) Sustain has worked to its potential, however my body natural test levels are below "normal" and further recovery is not possible
3) Allergies are kicking my ass!

Let me start off by saying that I think Sustain is still doing its job nicely, so I don't think that's the problem.

For a while, I was sure that it's just my natural test levels in the toilet... anytime I've gotten bloodwork in the past few years, my test levels weren't impressive, but then again, I've never recovered properly either between cycles. So it's hard to say for sure which is the case. The weird thing is, I've actually gotten morning wood the past 2 days... not "raging", but still that's gotta be a good sign?

Today, I came to another conclusion.... it's height of spring allergy season, and I think maybe that's what's kicking my ass. I've been taking zyrtec and flonase for years, but they only work marginally... during this time, I'm always very tired, along with all the other typical allergy symptoms. I also notice that I'm most wiped-out in the few hours after having been outside (on my way to and from work and after lunch). I also read that allergies can affect libido, sex drive, etc. So I'm praying this is what's going on.

Regardless, I have an appointment on Monday to get blood work.... I'm a little more optimistic than I was earlier this week. I will post up results when I get them and also what my course of action will be.

 

[GLEN]

i start it in 3-4 days...thanks bro for keeping us all in the loop with your honest views..

 

[tshoot]

Hi NJ,

Are you sleeping enough? Also, do you take any stimulants/thermogenics at all? They seem to help me get through the mornings I am dragging. I try to stop them by 4 o'clock so I can sleep without still feeling wired.

For allergy medications, have you tried Semprex-D capsules. It is one of the best allergy medications I have found. And, with the decongestant in it, it does not make you feel drowsy. Seems to work for most people I have let try it.

I am on Dermacrine Sustain also for PCT now. No uptick in libido at all but I do feel like I am recovering fine. As good as any other method I have tried - it's simple and not overly expensive. I have not used the regular Dermacrine yet, so I can't compare the two. Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Hi NJ,

Are you sleeping enough? Also, do you take any stimulants/thermogenics at all? They seem to help me get through the mornings I am dragging. I try to stop them by 4 o'clock so I can sleep without still feeling wired.

For allergy medications, have you tried Semprex-D capsules. It is one of the best allergy medications I have found. And, with the decongestant in it, it does not make you feel drowsy. Seems to work for most people I have let try it.

I am on Dermacrine Sustain also for PCT now. No uptick in libido at all but I do feel like I am recovering fine. As good as any other method I have tried - it's simple and not overly expensive. I have not used the regular Dermacrine yet, so I can't compare the two. Good luck and keep us updated.

Ahh, I knew someone would ask that question... I actually don't get enough sleep most nights... and the little I get isn't restful.... but I've been like that for YEARS before I even started AAS. My body is used to it by now... If I get 6 hours of sleep, that's a good night for me. In fact, when I get more sleep my body doesn't know what to do with it! *grin*

As for stimulants, I have started taking NO-xplode right before workouts on my training days (which right now is every other day). I have been taking Red Blast on my non-training days, on which I sometimes do cardio.

Otherwise I take nothing at all. I'm not a coffe-drinker. I'm trying not to rely on stimulants all the time or when I don't need them (i.e. when I'm not training). My thinking is that I shouldn't feel this run-down in the first place and I shouldn't have to rely on stimulants to get by. Plus, sometimes even stimulants don't work when it gets really bad... it's a physical exhaustion more so than a mental one... hard to explain.

I'll look into Semprex, thanks for the suggestions!

 

[needtogetaas]

Ahh, I knew someone would ask that question... I actually don't get enough sleep most nights... and the little I get isn't restful.... but I've been like that for YEARS before I even started AAS. My body is used to it by now... If I get 6 hours of sleep, that's a good night for me. In fact, when I get more sleep my body doesn't know what to do with it! *grin*

As for stimulants, I have started taking NO-xplode right before workouts on my training days (which right now is every other day). I have been taking Red Blast on my non-training days, on which I sometimes do cardio.

Otherwise I take nothing at all. I'm not a coffe-drinker. I'm trying not to rely on stimulants all the time or when I don't need them (i.e. when I'm not training). My thinking is that I shouldn't feel this run-down in the first place and I shouldn't have to rely on stimulants to get by. Plus, sometimes even stimulants don't work when it gets really bad... it's a physical exhaustion more so than a mental one... hard to explain.

I'll look into Semprex, thanks for the suggestions!

bro all ads aside you should try Mega Sleep Aid Capsules from http://www.customcapsule.com/index.html
I have bin using it because I have a had trouble sleeping ever since a went to the army...it knocks me out in 45 mins and I sleep all night...a few other bros on this site have had the same results from it to...its dirt cheap to like 14 bucks and well worth the trying....

 

[D_Mac]

Ahh, I knew someone would ask that question... I actually don't get enough sleep most nights... and the little I get isn't restful.... but I've been like that for YEARS before I even started AAS. My body is used to it by now... If I get 6 hours of sleep, that's a good night for me. In fact, when I get more sleep my body doesn't know what to do with it! *grin*

As for stimulants, I have started taking NO-xplode right before workouts on my training days (which right now is every other day). I have been taking Red Blast on my non-training days, on which I sometimes do cardio.

Otherwise I take nothing at all. I'm not a coffe-drinker. I'm trying not to rely on stimulants all the time or when I don't need them (i.e. when I'm not training). My thinking is that I shouldn't feel this run-down in the first place and I shouldn't have to rely on stimulants to get by. Plus, sometimes even stimulants don't work when it gets really bad... it's a physical exhaustion more so than a mental one... hard to explain.

I'll look into Semprex, thanks for the suggestions!

Ya thanks for the honest review NJ, hope things get better for you. I always used Claritin-D but now that stuff is basically illegal cause of the meth makers. I think you can get it with prescription, anyway that stuff works for me but allergies don't usually hit me until a couple weks into june

 

[tshoot]

Ya thanks for the honest review NJ, hope things get better for you. I always used Claritin-D but now that stuff is basically illegal cause of the meth makers. I think you can get it with prescription, anyway that stuff works for me but allergies don't usually hit me until a couple weks into june

You can still get the pseudoephedrine based products OTC (like Claritin-D, Pseudofed, etc) but you need to go back to the pharmacy to request them. Supposed to keep the kids from abusing them.

"Federal legislation takes effect on September 30, 2006 that imposes a deadline on moving allergy and cold products containing the active ingredient pseudoephedrine (PSE) off store shelves and placing them behind the pharmacy or customer service counter. "

Claritin-D doesn't work as well on my allergies but I like it for a cold or sinus infection because you can get the 12 and 24 hour versions without making you feel wired when you are trying to sleep and it lasts for a good 8 hours (despite the 12 hour claims). The antihistamine and decongestant sides seem to cancel each other out so you don't really feel wired or sleepy - just normal and snot free.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Ya thanks for the honest review NJ, hope things get better for you. I always used Claritin-D but now that stuff is basically illegal cause of the meth makers. I think you can get it with prescription, anyway that stuff works for me but allergies don't usually hit me until a couple weks into june

Hey, I said from the start I'd be totally honest with my review of this (or any product).

You're lucky you don't get hit with allergies until later... mine started last month and will last until all this pollen clears.... then ragweed in the fall... gotta love it! I'm gonna look into those shots... some of my friends swear by 'em.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Got a question...purely hypothetically-speaking.... so you've finished a cycle... ran Sustain as directed....had blood work done and you've recovered ok.... and now you have several months before deciding to run your next cycle... say 6 months... can you "cruise" with 1 month original Derma then 1 month Sustain....repeating this 'cycle' until ready to start an AAS cycle? How much suppression would you have to worry about? Or would running Sustain intermittently take care of that? Would any other measures need to be taken? I can see how original derma could work nicely in a scenario like this.... but Pp, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[gjohnson5]

This fat burner should be interesting

 

[Primordial Performance]

Got a question...purely hypothetically-speaking.... so you've finished a cycle... ran Sustain as directed....had blood work done and you've recovered ok.... and now you have several months before deciding to run your next cycle... say 6 months... can you "cruise" with 1 month original Derma then 1 month Sustain....repeating this 'cycle' until ready to start an AAS cycle? How much suppression would you have to worry about? Or would running Sustain intermittently take care of that? Would any other measures need to be taken? I can see how original derma could work nicely in a scenario like this.... but Pp, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, that would be a good plan. Perhaps better for run 6 weeks sustain and only 2-3 weeks original Derma though.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

This fat burner should be interesting

What's up g-man! Been a while... where ya hiding?

Still doing the Derma?

 

[njmuscleguy]

Yes, that would be a good plan. Perhaps better for run 6 weeks sustain and only 2-3 weeks original Derma though.

-Pp

Oh really? Why only 2-3 weeks? too suppressive? I thought 4 weeks was the original recommendation?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Oh really? Why only 2-3 weeks? too suppressive? I thought 4 weeks was the original recommendation?

Im giving that recommendation based on your individual situation of having a hard time keeping natural test up. – 2-3 weeks cycles would ensure you bounce back even faster.

But yes, 4 weeks is the normal recommendation.

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

Im giving that recommendation based on your individual situation of having a hard time keeping natural test up. – 2-3 weeks cycles would ensure you bounce back even faster.

But yes, 4 weeks is the normal recommendation.

-Pp

Oh gotcha....good lookin' out bro! I can't wait to get my bloodwork on monday... I hate not knowing what's going on with my body... after Monday, I can figure out which direction to go to.

 

[gjohnson5]

Just on the boards getting yelled at and raising some hell in the process...
I've been hiding in the weight room

Been making some gains from hell and yes I do still use dermacrine

What's up g-man! Been a while... where ya hiding?

Still doing the Derma?

 

[njmuscleguy]

Week 6 Update!

Well, folks... it's coming down to the end... I've now completed 4 weeks Sustain (and 2 weeks prior to that of original Derma). The bottle of Sustain lasted 4 weeks (40 sprays ED). This week started at a low-point but ended up pretty good.

Notables:
Allergies have improved.
Finished taking Tribex Gold 2 days ago.
Finished taking IGF 2 days ago.
Got blood work done on Monday of this week!

So as I said in my last updated, last week I was struggling with low energy, low strength, and no libido. This week started off like that but quickly improved. Energy is up, strength is climbing back up. Libido comes and goes, but better than last week.

My conclusions:
Allergies suck! They zap your strength/energy, sometimes enough to force you to skip the gym (which I did last week).

Sustain has done a nice job in helping me recover, or at least making me *feel* like I'm recovering.

I am anxiously awaiting my bloodwork to confirm recovery (or not). Other than a short spurt of feeling lowsy, Derma & Sustain have helped me avoid the dreaded crash.

I don't know how helpful (if at all) the Tribex (tribulus) was. However, I will continue to use IGF for future PCT's (it's helped me maintain size/weight).

My next post hopefully will be with bloodwork results!

 

[xrsist]

Week 6 Update!

Well, folks... it's coming down to the end... I've now completed 4 weeks Sustain (and 2 weeks prior to that of original Derma). The bottle of Sustain lasted 4 weeks (40 sprays ED). This week started at a low-point but ended up pretty good.

Notables:
Allergies have improved.
Finished taking Tribex Gold 2 days ago.
Finished taking IGF 2 days ago.
Got blood work done on Monday of this week!

So as I said in my last updated, last week I was struggling with low energy, low strength, and no libido. This week started off like that but quickly improved. Energy is up, strength is climbing back up. Libido comes and goes, but better than last week.

My conclusions:
Allergies suck! They zap your strength/energy, sometimes enough to force you to skip the gym (which I did last week).

Sustain has done a nice job in helping me recover, or at least making me *feel* like I'm recovering.

I am anxiously awaiting my bloodwork to confirm recovery (or not). Other than a short spurt of feeling lowsy, Derma & Sustain have helped me avoid the dreaded crash.

I don't know how helpful (if at all) the Tribex (tribulus) was. However, I will continue to use IGF for future PCT's (it's helped me maintain size/weight).

My next post hopefully will be with bloodwork results!

good to hear you havent crashed brother

 

[kaisersose]

NJ,

Thanks for the review of the product. I have enjoyed following the thread and hope the blood work looks good.

 

[needtogetaas]

in

 

[njmuscleguy]

Ok folks, blood-work is in. I started another thread with the results:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=548572

In short, my test levels didn't recover as much as I hoped they would. My natty test levels aren't impressive to begin with. So I think Sustain helped me to recover about as best as my body will allow. Test and free test are very very low. LH is low. FSH, is normal, as well as prolactin, SHBG... E2 is a bit high, so I'm told. Oh, my cholesterol, trigylicerides and liver enzymes are still high.

I have an appointment with an endo a month from now. HRT is definitely a consideration now. I think I may get bloodwork again right before the endo appointment to see if anything has improved, and then that will help me better decide.

All in all, aside from a few bad days here and there, I never felt like I crashed as I have in the past with other PCT's. I definitely still recomment Sustain to anyone else. I loved the original Derma, it made me feel great. Be glad to answer any questions down the road.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Ok folks... this is where things are at.... after much thought, I decided to start up Sustain again... 3 days ago... yesterday, I started taking MyogenX (9 caps per day).... I'll take them both until right before my endo visit in mid-June, at which point I'll have blood tested again. I'm still debating if I'll stop taking Sustain/Myo a week prior, to "normalize", or if I will take them str8 through. We'll see.

In the past few days energy levels have been decent... workouts haven't been too shabby... libido was so-so until now.... I woke up with wood this morning! Maybe the Sustain/MyogenX combo is working.... still too early to tell.

As always, I'll keep everyone posted in the next few weeks!

 

[Primordial Performance]

Ok folks... this is where things are at.... after much thought, I decided to start up Sustain again... 3 days ago... yesterday, I started taking MyogenX (9 caps per day).... I'll take them both until right before my endo visit in mid-June, at which point I'll have blood tested again. I'm still debating if I'll stop taking Sustain/Myo a week prior, to "normalize", or if I will take them str8 through. We'll see.

In the past few days energy levels have been decent... workouts haven't been too shabby... libido was so-so until now.... I woke up with wood this morning! Maybe the Sustain/MyogenX combo is working.... still too early to tell.

As always, I'll keep everyone posted in the next few weeks!

Nj,

Im really thinking you should run these products up until the test. This way, you will at least know that your body is capable of producing sufficient test with proper stimulation. If your test comes back at a satisfactory level then you know the products are working. Taking time off from your protocol for a short period (1 week) may cause a brief rebound period, thus interfering with the results.

I think your best approach is to let your body stabilize while using the supplements. Then make a move based on how the results come back.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

Nj,

Im really thinking you should run these products up until the test. This way, you will at least know that your body is capable of producing sufficient test with proper stimulation. If your test comes back at a satisfactory level then you know the products are working. Taking time off from your protocol for a short period (1 week) may cause a brief rebound period, thus interfering with the results.

I think your best approach is to let your body stabilize while using the supplements. Then make a move based on how the results come back.

-Pp

I saw him make a post so,some were saying he was going to use derma sustain up until his next test.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Week 8 Update!

Ok folks... I'm gonna keep this thing going until I'm done with PCT. After having taken a week off and having gotten bloodwork, results showed that my test levels weren't recovered yet after 6 weeks of derma + sustain. However, FSH was normal, E2 was normal, LH was a little low. I made an appointment to see an endo next month.

So I re-started the Sustain a week ago. Again, I noticed a slight boost in mood and energy within a couple of days. A few days after re-starting Sustain, I also started taking MyogenX... I figured WHAT THE HELL? I gotta say, this combo is pretty wild. I'm taking the maximum dosage of MyogenX (3 caps, 3x's a day)... after Day 5, libido started cranking up. My energy levels have been crazy this whole past week...no caffiene or stimulants.... strength at the gym has been pretty decent too. I'm still a little skeptical about MyogenX, being it's my first time using it and I don't know what to expect from it long-term. But my mood is great, libido is improving, energy is great... I know it's not placebo effect... I can feel this working.

I know there are alot of skeptics out there... I was one too... but I have to give props to these products. I feel great (haven't crashed one bit)... updates to follow.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Week 9 Update!

Well, I started off the week feeling as good as in prior weeks... but the last 2 days my energy and libido have dropped considerably... I've been feeling wiped-out actually, especially by the time I come home from work. I've taken NO-xplode before the gym as usual and it normally rev's me up, but even that has barely helped in the last 2 days. I haven't been getting the same kind of boost that I've been feeling while using Sustain and Myogenx. Sleep has been poor the last few days, maybe that's part of it.

I'll tough it out and see if it's just a temporary slump. I'll catch up on sleep this weekend. I've been eyeing my bottle of original Derma, dying to use it again... but I have two more weeks before next bloodwork. I'm not gonna screw it all up.
Still no complaints here yet... I'm sure it's just a temporary set-back.

 

[xrsist]

yer keep us updated for sure bro. im interested to see how your blood work goes

 

[njmuscleguy]

Weeks 10 & 11 Update

Hey folks... sorry for missing last week's update... been pretty busy. Last week (week 10) was fairly uneventful... nothing much to report....I felt good for the most part... energy was decent, strength was decent in the gym...I actually came down with a cold for a while, which explains why I wasn't feeling so hot recently.

This past week was much the same... I think I've finally plateaued and I think I'm about as recovered as I'm gonna get. I haven't had any severe crash until now, which I'm grateful for. I finished my second bottle of Sustain as well as Myogenx 2 days ago. The biggest news is that I saw an endocrinologist for the first time yesterday to discuss the possibility of my natty test levels being low. I went for bloodwork this morning. He wants to see where all my levels are at (they should be "normalized" by now, it's been 3 months since my cycle ended). I'm very interested to see if I've recovered any further since bloodwork last month.

All in all, I'd still recommend Derma & Sustain to anyone - great stuff. I was thinking, if I end up on HRT eventually, I won't need Sustain anymore but I could still use the original Derma which is cool, because I love the stuff! Final update(s) to come!

 

[njmuscleguy]

Well everyone.... the bloodwork that my new endo ordered up is back... the doctor called me up today and said my test levels came back "normal", at 397. He said everything else was normal as well except for the FSH, which was slightly elevated but nothing to be concerned about. He feels that HRT isn't warranted - at the same time, he has no idea as to why I'm having the symptoms of low test (and for 10 years now). I'm healthy otherwise. He basically had no recommendations other than to get retested several times and see if there was some sort of consistency - if my test levels come out much lower than 397 several times, he will consider HRT - he said anything lower than 100 in his book is considered "low" - IS HE KIDDING ME??

At this point, I'm not sure what I want to do - my bloodwork has fluctuated between 175 and 400 in the past 5 years or so (even before starting A A S) - it's not gonna get any better than this, and I don't want to continue feeling run down all the time, and having my workouts suffer. I think I'll get tested one more time in the next week or so. After that, I will either get a second opinion, start another cycle, or consider self-imposed H R T (which I would prefer not to).

If anyone has any thoughts or feedback, I'm all ears/eyes!

thanks everyone!

 

[njmuscleguy]

One final note, Derma & Sustain worked nicely to get my test levels alot higher than I've been in the last few years. I've recovered faster than I have in the past with clo-mid, no-lva, etc. And I've never had a severe crash. Though I still *feel* I need to be higher with test levels for better quality of life, if nothing else, I have no doubt that Derma & Sustain worked as promised. I'd recommend it to anyone!

 

[njmuscleguy]

So I just talked to my endo again - what a jerk - talked to me with an attitude the whole time. I asked him if he thought adrenal fatigue was a possibility - he said cortisol and DHEA came back perfectly normal - I asked him if it was better to test cortisol 4x's a day (saliva tests) and he said no, that AM test was best indicator and that there is alot of "hocus pocus" out there, so I need to be careful what I read.

I asked about hypothyroidism, etc. He said my thyroid panel came back normal, though I don't know exactly what he tested.

I asked if he tested estrogen levels and he said indignantly that if my test levels came back normal, there would be no need to test E levels.

He holds firm that my total test was normal at 397, he considers 300 "low", and HRT is not warranted for me. He also said he has no other thoughts as to why I have the same symptoms as "low test".

He's sending me another form for bloodwork - I'm gonna get tested tomorrow morning and see what happens. I'm gonna find another doctor, this guy is a dead-end.

 

[swanky11]

Hey njfatguy

I've been using sesamin. The lignans in sesamin heavily reduce my acne while taking dhea products

im about to start dermacrine and i dont want to get acne from it, but i have acne normally so i dont want to get more. this sesamin stuff work?