posted June 19, 2000 08:55 AM         

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I'm in the second week of the MAX-OT program. Basically it seems too basic to me. In my opinion, the sets are too few, and the workout is too quick. I started out saying I would follow it exactly, but now I find myself doing at least one extra set, and hell, on the cable pulldowns, I found myself doing about 3 extra sets yesterday cause I really like working the triceps. I know my body, and it just seems like the program is too limiting to me. I know many will say that I could easily overtrain, but like I said, I know my body. Has anybody else slightly deviated from the program, and if so, what did you think about it? BTW, I worked the bicep/tricep format yesterday, and I'm not even sore today. I lifted much heavier yesterday than I did in the first week. In my own routine, I may have done 4 exercises of 3-4 sets each with maybe 10 reps, while with MAX-OT, I'm only doing 3 exercises of 1-2 sets with 4-6 heavier reps. Just looking for some good sound feedback, or maybe even some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

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posted June 19, 2000 09:55 AM         

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There's too many things i don't like about this way of training.For one thing your training mon-fri, if your not on AS your'e going to overtrain.Then there's the choice of movements your doing, eg during back day you do cable rows,barbell rows and dumbell rows amongst others, what the f**k?what's the point of that?talk about a waste of time.
I also have to question dumbell kickbacks in a mass building tricep routine, and i can almost feel my soulders tense up at the mention of upright rows, which in my opinion is a useless excercise.The legs and chest days were ok, but overall i wouldn't use it.

I did find some positives though, there was some interesting comments on the 4-6 rep range and not using drop sets and burns in your workouts, and on using proper warm up sets.

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posted June 19, 2000 12:27 PM            

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Damn I can only do 1-2 heavy sets while doing this program! Sometimes 1 is all I got! You need to train super heavy and to failure. There is no way in hell I could do 4 sets to failure while doing this program.
I have deviated from it though a liitle bit.
For chest this is what I did today and ill explain why;
Bench Press 5 x 12-10-6-3-1 (135,135,185,205,225) warm-ups.
1 x 4-6 reps. (315)
Incline Press 2 X 4-6 (225,245)
BB pullover 2 X 6-8 (90,100)
Cable corssovers 2 X 6-8 (100,110)

My chest was so pumped I thought I was gonna explode!
I do the 2 mass builders first. Then with Advice from Steve Holman I need to finish off high higher reps. Hence 6-8 for the last 2 exercises. If I would of super setted the two I would keep reps down to 4-6, but since I didnt I did 6-8.

tomorow is back, cant wait!

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posted June 19, 2000 02:07 PM            

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i just started this program yesterday; i decided to start with my chest and abs because it was going to be time to train them anyways. but i found it very productive, my workouts were short and sweet. i followed the program outline on the dime. i definatley like this method so far because i leave the gym with more energy, and sorer muscles.i am excited to see the gains come.

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posted June 19, 2000 04:27 PM         

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I've been on Max-OT for 5 weeks now and I'm loving it. I've seen some serious gains in strength, and in 3 weeks I'll be taking measurements to see what kind of size gains I've had.

Are you going to failure on EVERY set? How's your intensity?

When I walk out of the gym, I feel completely drained.

TRIHARD, what are you talking about with "overtraining"? The program uses fewer reps and sets than most conventional programs. How is that overtraining? Have you tried the program? You must have been on it for a while to be able to knock it as much as you do.

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posted June 19, 2000 08:30 PM            

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Gotta agree.Checked it out,too basic.It's just not for me.

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posted June 20, 2000 01:20 AM            

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I like this program, I think it can really work as long as you are focused enough. The only deviating was that I only do one set for dips and had to add 2 sets of flies to chest

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posted June 20, 2000 01:42 AM            

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so far i like the MAX OT, i'm by far a novice in weightlifting but since using that routine and incorporating the philosophy's (intensity, overload, blah, blah, blah), i've felt soreness similar to that of when i first got back to the gym. also i agree with XdawgX, that overtraining isn't a likely problem by using the max ot routine, the sets are too few to overtrain but there perfect for there purpose. however, I've had problems concerning the diet, eating like 400 grams of protein is never easy, but high proteins diets work well for me to put on muscle.

XdawgX, what kind of results have you experienced so far?????????

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posted June 20, 2000 07:50 AM            

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Well my bench increased from 250lbs for 4-6 to 315lbs for 2 reps in about 1 1/2 monthes.

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posted June 20, 2000 04:19 PM            

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I started this program yesterday and so far it seems pretty good. The protein is impossible for me, so I just eat as much as I can. OVERTRAINING IS MENTAL. If you don't believe you will overtrain then you won't. All you guys saying how bad this program is could at least give it a try.
Hey Steelheart you really made that much of a gain in 6 weeks on your bench?

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Reality is what you make it.

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posted June 21, 2000 09:57 AM         

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I don't have the exact numbers (as far as my progress is concerned)... I'm at work and those are written down at home. I'm in the middle of my 6th week of Max-OT. But, off the top of my head:

*Squat has increased every week (20 lbs each of the last 2 weeks).

*I had just moved up to 85 lb. dumbbells for flat bench when I started the program. The past 2 weeks I've used 95's and next week I'm going to move up to 100's

*Each week, at the very least, reps increase, and more often than not so does the weight used.

*I didn't get my body fat measured when I started, but I do think I am looking leaner.

*I took various body measurements 2 weeks ago and in another 2 weeks I'll take them again to mark my progress.

*As far as dieting is concerned. I'm not following his recommendations VERY closely. I broke down what I need to get for each meal to follow his plan, and near as I can tell, I'm within the ballpark.

That's about all I can think of now. If I come up with more, I'll add it later.

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posted June 21, 2000 10:31 AM            

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I'm in my 3rd week of the max-ot program and the gains have been great. Not so much in the chest, but everything else has gone up. I follow the training to a T, but not the diet. I know what I need to eat, and its not 7 nytro shakes a day.

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to teach is to learn...
to learn is to grow...

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posted June 21, 2000 11:00 AM            

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Yup 315lbs for 2.

Anyone follow the diet recommendation? High Protein low carbs and fat??

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posted June 21, 2000 11:54 AM         

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I remember DB69 saying that he was following the diet plan precisely and he was having some pretty impressive results.

Like I said, I try to keep it close, but definitely not precise. I'm ballparking it more or less. I'm not taking any MRP's, but I am taking protein shakes. I'm eating ~4-5 meals a day and getting in the area of ~45-55 grams or protein, ~30-40 grams of carbs and ~10-15 grams of fat, per meal. Again, I'm not being precise at all, just getting roughly the amounts he recommends. Keeping my diet "clean" with no junk food, or soda or anything like that.

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posted June 22, 2000 05:38 AM         

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I think there is value to this way of training but not in its current form.Why do i think its overtraining when it only takes 30-45min to do?.For one thing if you give it everything in the gym, your going to need a day off to recover.At the most i would train two days in a row and take the third off.This routine has you training 5 days in a row, when do you grow?.The sequence of bodyparts trained could be better eg,you work triceps on tuesday and shoulders on wednesday.With all the pressing your doing on wenesday, your working triceps two days in a row.I,ve already mentioned my dislike of some of the choice of excersises used, in my previous post.
Personally i would incorporate shoulders into arm day, and drop kickbacks and straight bar cable curls, and add shrugs to back day.Then train legs/arms+shoulders/off/back/chest.
If the current routine works for you, fair enough, but sometimes you have to question these "magic routines", and decide what works best for you.Arnold worked out 5/6 days a week twice a day, Mentzer advocates once or twice a week, there's no definative right or wrong just personal opinions, and this is mine.

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posted June 22, 2000 06:05 AM         

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I hear what you're saying. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Let me ask you though, how many of the weeks have you read? I've read all 12, and I'd say there are at least 6-10 routines laid out, including a 3 day split.

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posted June 25, 2000 07:41 AM            

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Why do you beleive that muscles take days to recover? If that were the case wouldnt walking daily over train our legs? The point is that its your nervous system that needs recovery. I read from leo Costa that muscles can recover within 5 hours! IF you train properly. 40mins Short heavy bursts.

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posted June 30, 2000 10:10 AM            

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Tomorrow is my last day of the first 2 weeks. So far I've either gained 2-4 reps or 5 lbs on almost every exercise. So what if it's too limiting, so are sports and they're fun. Not like you're going to have a mental breakdown because you miss doing 15 sets of squats and 40 sets of bench press, right?

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Reality is what you make it.

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