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 Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
 Women's Discussion Board
 Starting the Ttokkyo Winstrol
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| Author | Topic: Starting the Ttokkyo Winstrol | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 207 |
I am very excited to get back into kicking my own ass in the gym after a little post-Thanksgiving slippage. I plan to try my first cycle of Winstrol am looking for some reassurance. I have the 10mg tabs of Ttokkyo Winstrol. I am beginning with splitting into 3 dosages of 5 mg each (15mg/day). Would it be better to take all 15 mg just before training? When can I safely increase my dosage if I don't see any sides? Is there a difference in dosing between injectable and oral? "Anabolics 2000" book recommends 8-16mg/day for females but board recommendations for injectable have been 50mg/eod. Please someone hold my hand :-)     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
The oral route of administration, according to the US mfg of stanozolol is about half as bioactive as the inj version. This info came from their tech people when we had considered using stanozolol instead of oxandrolone in a study. However, this was in rats. If you're dosing everyday, I don't think it makes any difference when you take it. The half-life of orals is about 9 hrs, not sure if 15 mg sid vs 5 mg tid would make any difference either. Let us know what happens. I'd suggest some baseline blood chems done and again when you are done with your cycle. F1 | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 2117 |
Take 20mg. One tab in the morning, one tab at night. As far as bioavailability, it is not greater the injectable. And not much less.... And 20mg per day will do you just fine. Just do a nice 8 week cycle and keep it steady. If you do every thing else, you'll make them gains. We don't want to get any other sides, the voice thing is well enough. Late Lobo p.s. you know I busting up every time I post ------------------ Lobo | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1114 |
A study done in males showed that oral winny is around 75% absorbed compared to the injected. The injectable also exhibits more of a steady state release. Please correct me if I've missed something, but weren't you doing 10mg per day Oxandrolone?? If so, then you might want to start your winny at the same dose and see how you go. You seemed to make great gains on 10mg per day........ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
MS: Do you have the citation for that study? F1 | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 373 |
MS, I'd like to know that citation too. If ya don't post it, just e-mail it to me. It sounds like a nice study to have on hand. Thanks. MR. BMJ [This message has been edited by MR. BMJ (edited December 21, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
The inj stanozolol data from UpJohn was done I believe in rats whose metabolisms are quite different than in humans, but it makes sense that the inj form mg per mg-injected vs ingested orally would result in a higher blood concentration. All the C-17 methylated orals undergo some form of hepatic degradation, some more than others. For example, methyl-T undergoes far more degradation than oxandrolone, which undergoes little hepatic degradation and is excreted mostly in its parent form. Thus, on a mg per mg basis, the blood concentrations have to be less after a first pass through the liver than if the AAS were administered via another route (i.e., sublingual, transdermal or injected). However, in the real world of increasing protein synthesis, does it really matter? You all probably know better than any of us research/clinician types. One burning question that I have regarding oral vs inj stanozolol. Lobo, this one is for you. We know that the orals (C-17 methylated androgens) reduce HDL cholesterol, particularly HDL2 primarily by increasing hepatic lipase activity and accelerating the degradation of the HDL molecule. Now, what I want to know as do some of my colleagues in the clinical world (at least those that can carry on an intelligent conversation on anabolic steroids, which isn't many), is if one ingests 20 mg of oral stanozolol per day vs. injecting 140 mg per week, would the effects on HDL be the same? Is it the route of administration or chemical make-up of the androgen that alters the HDL? If anyone has ever compared one vs the other, same total weekly dose, I'd be interested in differences in blood chems (liver enzymes, cholesterol, etc.) and perceptions of increases in strength, muscle mass, etc. MS, ditto on the reference. Email me if you have it. Lobo, I apologize in advance if you have to read this one 3 times F1 | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2117 |
Ok... I really hate you guys sometimes. Let me see if I can pass ya some real world info. I have done both the oral and the injectable at 100mg per day. Each time it was at the end of a bulking cycle and lasted for four weeks. The other gear I was on at the same time was 400mg of deca and 300mg of primo. Both the deca and primo were being tappered down to wind up the cycle. I like the winny at the end cause it counters deca and primo nicley, and is out of your system quickly so that natural test production can resume. Now the time I used the injectable and loved the results. Very hard and strenght did not tapper off while I was "comming down". At that time is was the only option to get 100mg. Taking some 40 2.5 tabs was just not viable. The seconed time I got some of IP's 50mg tabs. I was very excited as now I did not have to do them injections!!! Whooo hoooo! Hey, it's not like I enjoy them - it's a fricking pain. Two tabs a day. SAME results as far as I could tell. I kept a solid log book too. And I'm looking at it right now and I may have missed my protien intake a time or two on the second cycle. Now if you ask me, the real debate on the decision to use the injectable vs. oral is the sheer CONVIENENCE. Many a time I just did not want 100mg of winny in my butt. I would go so far as to say that even if the oral was 50% LESS EFFECTIVE I would still rather do the oral. Hey, I have a busy life and them injections every day make life hell. Now as to your queston on HDL, I bounced this off my nurse friend and we both think there would be little difference, it's more a functin of the androgen, not the route of admin.... but don't quote me on this :P ------------------ Lobo | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 317 |
You still EStupid girl ttookkyyo doesn't make winny yet. So you are either lying or are a scammer trying to sell, or you are taking anadrol in trying to make your thingy grow into a penis. JK ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 207 |
Thunder you are a big t--d. I guess the ones I have are British Labs. My bad. If your English was better maybe I would have understood you J/K! Thanks for the replies. I do appreciate the valuable information provided by board members. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2117 |
Thunder, are you the same Thunder I'm think of? ------------------ Lobo | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 126 |
...is if one ingests 20 mg of oral stanozolol per day vs. injecting 140 mg per week, would the effects on HDL be the same? Is it the route of administration or chemical make-up of the androgen that alters the HDL?...
Here's an old reference claiming slight differences in observed cholestatic effect between alkylated steroids: Adlercreutz, H. and Tenhumen R. Am. J. Med. 49:630, 1970. This reference comes from: ...light background reading. The hepatic 'first-pass' effect would also be proportionate to the hepatic/portal blood flow, which may be different for rats. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 126 |
Bump. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1230 |
Thanks Artemis...I remember reading this one before. Makes more sense to me now. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1114 |
I must have been away and missed a lot of this discussion. I don't have the reference to that study in EndNote, but when I track it down I'll let F1 and BMJ know. As for you Warlobo, shame on you for trying to compare 100mg (oral or injected) winny on top of 100mg per day of other anabolics in a male who is certainly not concerned about masculinizing side effects. At that dose and with those other drugs you will get good results whether you inject or swallow the stuff. It's not nitpicking when we're talking about a female on 10-20mg per day (winny only) to be worried about having high peak plasma levels or reduced bioavailability. In the case of Warlobo I would be much more worried about colestasis, in Juicy (and even more so with Skydancer) I would be more worried about unnecessary side effects. |
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Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c
posted December 20, 2000 06:54 PM
