posted May 16, 2000 11:02 PM            

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I JUST WATCHED A SPECIAL ON 20/20 WHERE TESTING WAS DONE ON THERMOGENIC PRODUCTS.THEY DID A 6 MONTH BLIND STUDY WHERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE TOOK ECA AND DIETED AND WORKED OUT AND THE OTHER GROUP JUST DIETED AND WORKED OUT,THE ECA GROUP ONLY LOST AN AVERAGE OF 5 POUNDS OR LESS ,MORE OVER THE NON ECA GROUP.I ALWAYS WAS SUSPICIOUS OF THESE THERMOGENICS BUT NOW IM SURE THEY SUCK...
THEY LOSE ALL EFFECTS AFTER A COUPLE OF DAYS USE,SAVE YOUR MONEY JUST DRINK A STRONG COFFEE ITS THE SAME CRAP.
THOSE CLAIMS THE SUPPLEMENT INDUSTRY MAKE ARE UNBELEIVABLE THERE STILL JUST BASED ON SPECULATIONS,EVEN THE SUPPLEMENTS WHICH ARE BACKED BY SCIENCE DONT DO MUCH..
LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY OPINIONS....

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posted May 16, 2000 11:04 PM            

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BY THE WAY SOME OF THE THERMOGENICS USED WHERE AMONG THE MOST POPULAR ON THE MARKET,XENADRINE,HYDROXYCUT,RIPPEDFUEL,THERMADRENE,DYEMETADRINE XTREME..

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posted May 16, 2000 11:16 PM            

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Really? That's interesting dude. In my personal experience when I use an e/c/a stack, I drop bodyfat quickly, but it doesnt take long for my body to adapt to it and it becomes less effective. I once got down to about 9% bodyfat using e/c/a, but the way I did it was 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. That helped it stay effective and my body would not have time to get used to it. The one thing I do hate about thermogenics is that they cut my appetite. Damn, I cant grow without food! I then started just taking them before workouts and not continously throughout the day. That did nothing for bodyfat levels...it just cut my appetite and gave me energy for my workout. Well, anyway, in my personal experience, I got great results by using e/c/a with cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach...2 weeks on, 2 off. So, to all of you who have a supply of thermogenics, try that and see if it works. Personally, I wont be spending any money on them ever again. You can get the same results from a good diet and some cardio with your weight training. Later...

[This message has been edited by CONTRACTION (edited May 16, 2000).]

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posted May 16, 2000 11:27 PM            

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I TOTALY AGREE WITH THEIR ENERGY EFFECT,BUT DO YOU THINK YOUR B.F DROPED BECAUSE OF THE CARDIO OR THE ECA.I THINK ITS THE CARDIO..

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posted May 17, 2000 12:05 AM         

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That was my impression about the ECA stacks...they just quit working. I did find however that adipokinetix didn't stop working even after over a month of taking it daily. I really didn't have to diet as hard on the adipo either, but then again, adipo is not an ECA stack.

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posted May 17, 2000 12:10 AM            

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HOW MUCH DO U WEIGH BACKDOC AND WHAT IS YOUR B.F% AND WHAT IS YOUR BODY TYPE?,ECTO,MESO,ENDO

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posted May 17, 2000 12:10 AM         

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You also have to remember that shows like 20/20 are owned by the people who pay their bills...often times, that's the pharmaceutical companies and megaconglomerates. So the information would probably be biased anyway. Think about it this way...do you think they would've aired the piece if they found the group taking the ECA products had lost significantly more weight? I doubt it since there's still a push for the FDA to pull ephedra containing products. Sounds to me like they're priming the waters to get ECA unpopular enough so that there wouldn't be any real opposition if ephedra was pulled. If ephedra gets pulled then they'll most likely pull norephedrine based on that and another reason. I'd hate to see that.

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posted May 17, 2000 12:12 AM            

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To answer your question...both! I've been experimenting with dropping bodyfat levels for 10 years now. I just wanted to post the results of one of them.

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Give me 4cc's of hard iron please!

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posted May 17, 2000 12:15 AM            

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I AGREE FDA WANTS TO PULL IT OFF THE MARKET,BUT I FIND 20/20 TO BE A TRUST WORTHY SHOW.BESIDES I DEFINETLY HAVE ALOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH ECA AND DIETING WITHOUT IT NO REAL DIFFERNCE.IF ANYTHING I FIND THAT THE ECAS PICK U UP 4 A WHILE BUT LEAVE U VERY FATIGUED AFTER THE QUICK PICK ME UP EFFECT...
WHAT DO U THINK?

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posted May 17, 2000 12:25 AM            

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Yes, definitely! After the e/c/a wears off, I drop like a rock and just want to sleep. The strongest I've used is the new formula AST has called Dymedrine Extreme. It is very potent. I had energy like a freakin' mad man and my strength was up like crazy! I looked like the energizer bunny with all that energy until I get to work and sit down for a while. By that time it wears off and I almost smash the keyboard with my forehead. Solid, dead drop and it sucks!

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Give me 4cc's of hard iron please!

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posted May 17, 2000 12:35 AM            

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the same crap happens to me bro,its so fucking stupid if i take em in the morning im a fuckin zombie by 2 oclock,its not worth it,then i end up drinking coffee,which makes the eca less potent the next time i take it.waste of money ill stick with clen 4 getting ripped..

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posted May 17, 2000 12:45 AM         

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When I did the eca stack I was doing a no carb diet and it worked great in addition to the diet. Herbal Ephedrine doesn't crash me out as hard. Give that try

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posted May 17, 2000 02:01 AM            

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This is interesting, but I have a few questions about the study:
1.) What type of diet/eating technique was advised during this project?

2.) Was there any weight training or physical activity requirements?

3.) How much ECA was used per day?

4.) What was the average age?

These are important questions to consider. If there is an answer, I would like to know, because I have gotten great results from taking ephedrine and caffeine. I continue to get results even after the thermogenic effect wears off. Is this a study that is published in a Journal? or was it put on by 20/20 themselves?

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posted May 17, 2000 04:28 AM         

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I'm a scientist and you have to take what experiments say with a very large pinch of salt. Like my man above says - what were the conditions? You can manipulate a study so show the effect you want (whether it be positive or negative). Where the people used all of the same weight, height, body type, age, health etc. These are all factors.

Plus I'd say that if you lost an extra 5llb with therms then this would imply that they did work!

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posted May 17, 2000 12:56 PM            

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Go to a medical library and look up published, peer reviewed papers on the journals. A good place to start would be the International Journal of Obesity, or even the JAMA. That is what I did before taking the stuff. Without fail, all experiments indicate that the ECA stack is not only effective, but also safe.
As far as personal experiences, I lost around ~53 # of bodyweight (while adding ~ 7# of lean muscle mass) in about seven months. These figures were determined by hydrostatic testing at The Ohio State University. I accomplished this by dieting, weightlifting twice a week, and NO CARDIO. Two family members have also experienced favorable results.
I'd also like to add that, IMHO, the primary benefit of the ECA stack is not its thermogenic effect, but its anorectic effect. That is, it allows you to diet without feeling hungry.

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posted May 17, 2000 05:26 PM            

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Another thing to consider is what kind of shape these people were in before the study. Meaning, if they were all overweight and had never lifted a weight or done any cardio, then they were bound to lose a lot of weight/fat anyways without the thermos. You can take a very obese person and they can lose weight easily without thermos. Thermos are most effective for me when I am trying to get very lean bodyfat percentages. I usually will not bother using them when I first start dieting (when I am around 12-15%) because I can get to 10 percent very easy without thermos. Under 10 percent is when I find there use very important. Losing 5 pounds under 10% is a major accomplishment in my opinion. This was a good post though man, it gives us something to consider.

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posted May 17, 2000 08:12 PM            

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They work, your just not supposed to keep eating those bags of chips when taking them.

All things in life work as a team. Taking AS and sitting on your rump will not do much, but add in some proper nutrition and weight training and look out! Take them continously and they quit working so good and possible side affects increase. Cycle them and BAMM!! they work again.

E/C/A's are the same way.

There has been no one yet that has created that ultimate wonder drug that all you do is take it and every thing you ever dreamed comes true. In this current world there are positives and negatives, and everything you take or do will effect something else in some way. 20/20 is on the air because it makes money. And I highly doubt that everything they say is based on the most unbiased facts there are. But, I also like to watch it

Thr "Grain of Salt" theory applies.

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posted May 18, 2000 03:35 PM            

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acording to the study the people took the recommended amounts of eca from some of the top thermos on the market.xenadrine,dietfuel
hydroxycut,dyemetadrine xtreme.they dieted ,did cardio and weight training in both groups,and the eca group only lost 5pounds or less ,more from the non eca group,very intersting.i guess the only way we would know for sure is to try it our selves.

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posted May 20, 2000 04:27 PM            

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I have a question is that adipo shit the same as md6?

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DECA-IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER

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posted May 31, 2000 04:47 AM         

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I am using Dym Xtreme since 3 weeks , this is my 4th week cycle , and I am having really BIG BIG results.

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posted May 31, 2000 04:48 AM         

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I am using Dym Xtreme since 3 weeks , this is my 4th week cycle , and I am having really BIG BIG results.

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posted June 05, 2000 07:51 AM         

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Gowzer, If you formulate your opinions on thermogenics from a News/tabloid TV show then that shows all of us that you aren't much of an independent thinker. Look at the research-not some sensational babble spewed out by Barbara WAH_WAH

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Your_Moms_Kneepads

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posted June 10, 2000 11:00 AM         

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GOWZER, this is your second fuckup in using a "reliable" source. Your first was The Anabolic Reference Guide and Bill Philips, now it is 20/20. My God man, 20/20 is not science, they are liberal media! I have seen shows on 20/20 concerning diets and they claim that high protein diets will cause everything from kidney failure to pedophilia.

If you want real information concerning science, then read the scientific journals. E/C will reduce it's CNS stimulation after about 2 weeks, but this does not negate the lipolytic response. In the original studies, the E/C group lost the same amount of weight as the control group, but when the body composition tests were done, the E/C group lost very little LBM, whereas the control lost a hell of alot more.

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