I am a part of the problem - Toning Myth

[rez]

well thats exactly what ive been doing. For example this week i couldnt face the gym without a bit of a push..so i did 2 pump classes and i heavy upperbody day, mixed w cardio in between.

Ide like to know if i treat pump the same way - diet wise- as lifting heavy? both involve weights...

 

[Gladiola]

Ide like to know if i treat pump the same way - diet wise- as lifting heavy? both involve weights...

Personally I don't follow the empty stomach for cardio rule- as fat burns in a carbohydrate flame, so you can't burn fat if you're glycogen depleted. Not quite worth the torture to me either - I get light headed.
But if you really push yourself, you CAN burn a good # of cals in a pump class. Just be careful of your form & watch for joint pain - it really can lead to overuse injuries & joint problems.

C3 - too funny, I"m already working on becoming a trainer I take the ACE certification exam on May 4 & I'm considering going to school for a bachelors than Masters in physiology (Have a Bachelors in Business right now). But you are right on the money that this is what the public wants - & someone else will teach the classes if I don't. At least I have their ears for the hour to try to convert them..... I don't feel we should view them as idiots & want them out of our way - how many of us here believed the crap myths for years till something made us see the light? I have had plenty of ppl REALLY take an interest in what I was saying. Sure, not that many that have put the knowledge into action - but at least they hear the truth.

 

[wilson6]

"Even the fitness chicks in the mags preach the high rep gospel "

That's because with all the juice they're on, if they lifted heavy they'd look like bodybuilders (i.e., too much muscle mass). The only way to keep the size down but have the "hard" look, particularly lower body is high-reps + juice. What most of the public doesn't understand about fitness and high-reps, is the juice part. For non-juicing females, more intense, heavier lifting is required to build the same "fitness" mass.

Regarding empty stomach cardio.

What you burn depends on exercise intensity. For example, if one exercised at 25% and 65% of VO2 max. (25% is a moderate walking pace, 65% would be a moderate jog) for 2 hours and weighed 70 kg, the person walking would burn 72 grams of fat and the person jogging would burn 96 grams of fat. This is fasted state. Not much difference because the rest of the energy comes from muscle glycogen for the 65% VO2 exercise bout, not more fat. In fact, the higher the exercise intensity, the less fat and more carbohydrate is used.

Women in general burn more fat than men during cardio at the same exercise intensity, assuming it is about 50% VO2max.

Pre-exercise CHO feedings will increase the oxidation of CHO, but if the exercise bout is long enough (i.e. an hour +), there is still considerable fat oxidized because the insulin response to the CHO is shut down early on in exercise.

Regardless, it is still best to eat some carbs before going in to the gym, lift first, then do the cardio. Then, eat a meal with both carbs and protein in it right after exercise as most of the carbs will be disposed of in the muscle and liver.

BTW, getting sore isn't only a function of weight-training. Try running downhill sometime, your legs will get sore, but they won't develop like those of someone who squats heavy.

W6

 

[Gladiola]

Regardless, it is still best to eat some carbs before going in to the gym, lift first, then do the cardio. Then, eat a meal with both carbs and protein in it right after exercise as most of the carbs will be disposed of in the muscle and liver.

So W6 - you don't advocate the FTITM empty stomach cardio as the ideal for burning fat? I thought that was the absolute gospel around here!

Regarding post W/O meal - how long post w/o & how much food? I usually lift 5:30 - 6:30 & don't eat dinner till about 8:00 - but I'm not hungry AT ALL. My exercise physiologist friend suggested a hi-GI carb snack like white potato or banana - but of course that's not many cals & certainly not a 'meal'.

 

[wilson6]

Let me qualify that. IF you're going to lift, then some carbs are fine because the boost of catacholamines from the intense weight-lifting session will shut down any insulin response from the meal, then do your cardio besides I doubt if you're going to eat more than 50 g of CHO post-workout so the insulin surge shouldn't be dramatic. If you're just going to do cardio, then go on an empty stomach. The level of intensity of the workout should dictate what you eat, if anything before you go in. If you try anything that is fairly intense on an empty stomach, and your liver glycogen is down, then you'll have problems.

Have a Met-Rx or equiv after the workout. That's plenty of carbs for a high-intensity workout. Now, if you just ran on the treadmill for two hours, then you'll need far more carbs to replenish muscle glycogen stores.

Follow it up with a chicken breast and some veg before bed.

W6

 

[wilson6]

more clarification

Carbs before cardio.

It will also depend on high or low glycemic index food prior to cardio that will make a difference.

For example,

If one eats 1g/kg bodyweight, either muesli (grain product, low GI) or mashed potatoes (high GI) 30 min prior to a cardio workout. The potato meal will reduce the use of fat for energy over a 2-hr cardio period at 70% VO2 max (pretty good pace). HOWEVER, the muesli will not. Same amount of fat burned compared to those that were overnight fasted with no pre-exercise meal. Thus, up to 1g/kg of a low GI food prior to exercise shouldn't make a big difference. For those that are sensitive to low blood sugar, this would be a good way to go. For those that have no problems on an empty stomach, then continue on with an empty stomach, unless you're lifting first.

W6

 

[rez]

thanks for the info w6
i was also wondering about timing post workout. After cardio i wait about an hour before eating a high protein, low fat, mod carb meal. Is this necessary or is it breaking down muscle (considering i do not eat before the workout)?

 

[rez]

i do that when i lift...should i apply that to cardio if i want maximise fat loss?

 

[Hbone]

I am new to the board and have been reading your posts for about two weeks now. I am using my husbands user name, so you can call me citrine.

I have been lifting weights since I was in high school. As heavy as I could. I am now in my early 30's and still weight train. I am 5'4 and in high school weighed 118. In my twenties I averaged 125 and after my first child I weighed 160. I have been struggling to get my weight off for years. Absolutely no control in the eating department.

January of this year, I went on a strict calorie restricted diet and have since lost 15 pounds and 10% bf. I still have about 10% more to go and about 15 more pounds. Over the last few weeks I took some time off my diet becasue if I didn't I was going to kill someone. I am back on track now and ready to go.

I have been told that while you are dieting and depleting your calories, it is physically impossible to put on muscle, regardless if you are lifting heavy or not. However, if you are cheating on your diet and not being strict, and are still lifting heavy, you will, over a period of time, put on muscle mass. But without juice, a woman will not put on mass while dieting.

To me, doing a thousand reps while weight training is a cardo work out and nothing else. Why do it at all. You should feel good about being strong and work hard to get stronger.

Right now I am struggling with the way I look because I have a lot of muscle mass for my frame but I still have a lot of fat over it. I am sure that once I lean out, it will be beautiful.

Thanks for having me.

 

[Hbone]

I see your point, but what I am saying is that if you are dieting seven days a week for months at a time, a restricted number of calories (under 1400), you wouldn't put on muscle mass, unless you were supplementing.