In defence of Smith Machine squats

[slinky]

Southern:

I don't (and can't) speak for spatts. But the way in which you use the wraps; i.e. very tightly wound around the knees, is what threw me off the first time I used them. You are so aware of them on your knees. And the fact that they're cutting off circulation

You'll get use to them, but just be aware of how it may feel the very first few times you do use them.

 

[SouthernBell]

Thanks Slinky, I guess I will have to just try them and see for myself.

SB

 

[Realgains]

Spatts, you said that in ref to the video of you squating you may have looked a little shakey because that was the first time you used the knee wraps. Why do they make you shakey. I was looking in to getting me some and I was wondering if this would be good or bad for my squat. I was thinking they would help stabalize my knees from shaking. I surely don't want to add anything that will make me more shakey.

SB

Don't use wraps unless you are doing heavy triples or less and I don't think you should do that for quite some time.
Wraps used in training will only weaken your knees....they are a crutch.

They are needed in power lifting in order to be competitive, since they are standard material just like the squat suit and belt. The bely, suit and wraps will add quite a bit to your squat max.

About the belt. I don't recommend using it unless you are going to go to failure of close to that. Not a few poeple don't use a belt in high rep squats though.

 

[Realgains]

I never free bar squat anymore.

Smith Squats or front squats
Stiff deads
Hacks
leg ext and culrs

hit everything for me.

Ya ...once a person has well developed upper legs then one can drop the free squat ...this is not that usual for top level bodybuilders.

BUT....mentally I don't think I will ver be able to do this even thought my legs are my best body part. I am addicted to heavy high rep back squats.

RG

 

[Nonerz]

Wraps used in training will only weaken your knees....they are a crutch.

some could say the same type of thing about the Smith...

 

[bignate73]

Wraps used in training will only weaken your knees....they are a crutch.

exactly,to put it more pointedly, they allow you to get stronger than your joint structure can keep up with. ex: your knees can handle the strain of X weight, your legs can push (after using wraps for a while) 1.3X. if X doesnt catch up to the wrapped weight you can push....something is going to go even on lighter weights with a slip in form.

its like having max horsepower from an engine and the proper clutch that can handle it to put the power to the transmission....if you get a shot of nitrous (an increase in horsepower) and your clutch cant hold it....something will blow. sorry for the car analogy but it works for the weak link analogy.

 

[Realgains]

some could say the same type of thing about the Smith...

Some do but they are wrong.

The smith does not support a critical joint like wraps support a knee. The wraps also cause a tension rebound and that takes the force off the quads.

Build your strength without wraps...practise heavy singles with wraps if you are power lifter. Unfortunately they, and the squat suit, are allowed in power lifting so you have to use them or you are at an unfair disadvantage in a comp.


The smith takes away the need to balance but it still works assesory/stabalizing muscles hard, contrary to what some people may think.

RG

 

[Realgains]

"BOTTOM LINE" ON THE SMITH

Some people can use it effectively and some people cannot and you will not know it unless you try it. If it doesn't feel right even after making small adjustment to your foot placement then drop it.

If you are going to use it PLEASE be sure to use strict form and weight that you can manage for full reps AND avoid excessive foot placements forward or back.

Much of the same can be said about many exercises INCLUDING free weight movements ie: some can do heavy upright rows and some get sore rotator cuffs, some can do press behind the neck and wreck their shoulders with this movement, some can do deep leg pressing and some injure their low back, some can bench press with a free bar and some injure rotator cuffs.

Most can learn to back squat with a free bar half decently BUT SOME CANNOT and are better off using a trap bar deadlift and MAYBE the leg press or smith machine or TRUSQUAT machine. etc etc.

To say that the Smith machine is a piece of crap and always results in injury is not only BS but it is not fair. Tell Dorian Yates that the Smith is crap.

That said.....If you love to back squat and can do it safely with a free bar then you don't really need the Smith at all or any other quad movement for that matter. I only use it occasionally for a change of pace.

Come to think of it I might try front squats with it tomorrow.

RG

 

[spatts]

SB, slinky and RG answered your question. I second RG on the use of equipment. I train raw. Hell, I'll probably even compete raw soon, just for fun. The knee wraps were really added because...well...that's whatcha do! Sounds crappy, but everyone uses them and I wanted to see if it "helped." I felt springloaded. It helps you make a max effort lift, but as RG said, in everyday training it hinders healthy progress.

 

[deafsquatter]

I found the primary benefit from using the Smith is psychological. I'm your average, 5'7, strong woman (ok, above average in strength, but not pro or competitive by any means). I worked on form and did free squats for a while, but when I finally turned to the Smith (due to lack of spotters and the desire to try out an increased weight) and realized I *could* do 250+lbs, my confidence level and consequently my performance on free squats improved. I still use the Smith primarily for what it is not designed for, mainly modifed horizontal pullups (ala Krista Scott-Dixon) and stabilizing me on platform calf raises (ha). but I digress.... it's a good, useful tool. We all talk about biomechanics, but don't forget the psych part of training (esp. for women) is invaluable.