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Vertical Leap training thread
- Thread starter coolcolj
- Start date
coolcolj
New member
Well you should periodize your training. Get the size and strenth you want now, and then alter switch to a more power style traing for vertical.
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Research of muscle antagonist pairs and speed of movement
A high correlation was found between the strength of the hamstrings and the vertical jump results of weightlifters. Furthermore, the vertical jump results of weightlifters have a high, but inversely proportional connection to the speed with which the knees shift under the barbell. The stronger the hamstrings, the higher the vertical jump of weightlifters, the faster the knees shift under the barbell in the "explosion" (4).
The faster this reaction takes place, the more powerful the "explosion", the higher the results.
Research into improving the speed of joint motion has shown that the relative strength of the antagonist muscle in an antagonistic pair can affect the speed of movement (1). The hamstrings are the antagonist muscles to the quads. These muscles act as a "brake" for the quadriceps during the extension of the leg. This is to keep the joint from being straightened faster than it can be prudently stopped.
According to the research in this area: " When the agonist is stronger than the antagonist, the neuromuscular system limits speeds to that the antagonist can safely brake, even if the agonist can make the joint move faster" (1).
Consequently, the recommendation "To make an athlete move faster, training must emphasize the antagonist"(1). In all probability this is the reason for the practical observation in weightlifting that "A lot of squats adversely effect speed"(16). A significant disproportionate strength development between the quadriceps and the hamstrings is, apparently, the reason behind this observation.
The key role the hamstrings can play in weightlifting technique revolves around the so - called stretch reflex and the positive effect the action of these muscles can have on the vertical forces produced by the quadriceps. In the approximately one second it takes to execute the snatch, the hamstrings are stretched and subjected to significant tension as the legs initially straighten when the barbell is lifted from the floor. Then, in virtually the same instant they come into play to flex the knees as they shift under the bar. Finally, a fraction of a second later, the hamstrings flex the legs for the squat under the bar.
----------
Research of muscle antagonist pairs and speed of movement
A high correlation was found between the strength of the hamstrings and the vertical jump results of weightlifters. Furthermore, the vertical jump results of weightlifters have a high, but inversely proportional connection to the speed with which the knees shift under the barbell. The stronger the hamstrings, the higher the vertical jump of weightlifters, the faster the knees shift under the barbell in the "explosion" (4).
The faster this reaction takes place, the more powerful the "explosion", the higher the results.
Research into improving the speed of joint motion has shown that the relative strength of the antagonist muscle in an antagonistic pair can affect the speed of movement (1). The hamstrings are the antagonist muscles to the quads. These muscles act as a "brake" for the quadriceps during the extension of the leg. This is to keep the joint from being straightened faster than it can be prudently stopped.
According to the research in this area: " When the agonist is stronger than the antagonist, the neuromuscular system limits speeds to that the antagonist can safely brake, even if the agonist can make the joint move faster" (1).
Consequently, the recommendation "To make an athlete move faster, training must emphasize the antagonist"(1). In all probability this is the reason for the practical observation in weightlifting that "A lot of squats adversely effect speed"(16). A significant disproportionate strength development between the quadriceps and the hamstrings is, apparently, the reason behind this observation.
The key role the hamstrings can play in weightlifting technique revolves around the so - called stretch reflex and the positive effect the action of these muscles can have on the vertical forces produced by the quadriceps. In the approximately one second it takes to execute the snatch, the hamstrings are stretched and subjected to significant tension as the legs initially straighten when the barbell is lifted from the floor. Then, in virtually the same instant they come into play to flex the knees as they shift under the bar. Finally, a fraction of a second later, the hamstrings flex the legs for the squat under the bar.
How do you think it will take me to add 8-12 inches on my vertical?
I want to gain size and lose BF ASAP.. So i'm going to be doing some cardio..
I'll probably sprint 3x/week starting in July, but until then I might do some pylo's... Which would be cardio, right?
If I did a few pylo's on tue/wed/thur or something, would that be good?
I want to gain size and lose BF ASAP.. So i'm going to be doing some cardio..
I'll probably sprint 3x/week starting in July, but until then I might do some pylo's... Which would be cardio, right?
If I did a few pylo's on tue/wed/thur or something, would that be good?
coolcolj
New member
Well its all genetics, but I would say between 6 to 12 months. You don't want to rush it, ie lose fat without losing the muscle, build up your strength base, and strengthen your ligaments and tendons to withstand the pounding of plyometrics, especially the shin muscles etc. It takes at least 2-3 months to start getting really explosive on snatches and cleans etc.
Plyos are not cardio. You need to rest quite a bit between plyo sets, because its meant to train the nervous system and stretch reflex. Doing high volume and minimal rest to turn it into cardio will create bad form and CNS learning, and eventually ruin your vertical leap form
Because you can't do everything at once you have to periodise your training. Look at that program for ideas. It starts off with 12 weeks of strength and foundation building, then the power exercises get introduced, and then plyos come in at the end. that's the order you do it. And then you repeat the cycle for more gains.
Once you get good a interval sprints, it doesn't tax you as much, and you won't get sore from them like you will when you first start off. By then you can do it on the off days. But you can forget about splitting your workout the way you are now. You need to work your whole body at once for atheltic power, or at the very least you can do a 2 day split.
Vertical leap training will work your legs quite hard as is, if you want to add muscle size as well, you can just concentrate on your upper body. Just do a few basic compound exercises at the end of the workout should do the trick. I have learnt the hard way, that you can't do eveyrthing and be good at them all, you will overtrain and not get the desired results. Its best to specialise. Why don't you lose the fat first, then build up a strength and foundation, then start doing power exercises like jump snatches and cleans, and then go into the plyo phase.
personally I'm at the lose fat/strength and foundation build up phase. But I am do bar only jump sntaches at the start of my workouts to learn the form and technique, get into the groove if you will, and it warms up my body. I do sprints twice a week on the off days and I'm on a lowish carb diet. Still quite fat, and very weak
Plyos are not cardio. You need to rest quite a bit between plyo sets, because its meant to train the nervous system and stretch reflex. Doing high volume and minimal rest to turn it into cardio will create bad form and CNS learning, and eventually ruin your vertical leap form
Because you can't do everything at once you have to periodise your training. Look at that program for ideas. It starts off with 12 weeks of strength and foundation building, then the power exercises get introduced, and then plyos come in at the end. that's the order you do it. And then you repeat the cycle for more gains.
Once you get good a interval sprints, it doesn't tax you as much, and you won't get sore from them like you will when you first start off. By then you can do it on the off days. But you can forget about splitting your workout the way you are now. You need to work your whole body at once for atheltic power, or at the very least you can do a 2 day split.
Vertical leap training will work your legs quite hard as is, if you want to add muscle size as well, you can just concentrate on your upper body. Just do a few basic compound exercises at the end of the workout should do the trick. I have learnt the hard way, that you can't do eveyrthing and be good at them all, you will overtrain and not get the desired results. Its best to specialise. Why don't you lose the fat first, then build up a strength and foundation, then start doing power exercises like jump snatches and cleans, and then go into the plyo phase.
personally I'm at the lose fat/strength and foundation build up phase. But I am do bar only jump sntaches at the start of my workouts to learn the form and technique, get into the groove if you will, and it warms up my body. I do sprints twice a week on the off days and I'm on a lowish carb diet. Still quite fat, and very weak
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coolcolj
New member
Well that's what I'm doing now myself, get big, get strong and lose fat
Building my foundation for explosive speed and vertical power!
I'm working my whole body each session. 2 to 3 times a week, with Sprints on the rest days in between each work out.
ie I train on Mon, Weds and Sat. I sprint on Tues and Sunday.
Splits are a waste of time. The more you can workout and recover in a week , the faster the gains. In your current split your basicly working your bodyparts once a week. In that time each of my bodyparts have been worked 3 times and I've gained from every workout. Both size and strength - although I don't don't claim to all that big
see my diet thread for some progress pics of me - I don't look like a Bball player or sprinter just yet
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133563
Building my foundation for explosive speed and vertical power!
I'm working my whole body each session. 2 to 3 times a week, with Sprints on the rest days in between each work out.
ie I train on Mon, Weds and Sat. I sprint on Tues and Sunday.
Splits are a waste of time. The more you can workout and recover in a week , the faster the gains. In your current split your basicly working your bodyparts once a week. In that time each of my bodyparts have been worked 3 times and I've gained from every workout. Both size and strength - although I don't don't claim to all that big
see my diet thread for some progress pics of me - I don't look like a Bball player or sprinter just yet
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133563
coolcolj
New member
Tips from a Q&A
The first thing to look at is your level of maximal strength in the muscles responsible for jumping which are (in approximate order of importance) glutes, hamstrings, quads, gastrocnemius, and low back musculature. The usual exercises used in assessing the maximal strength of these muscles are the back squat and/or deadlift.
Although I can't give you any exact numbers, in general, the greater your maximal strength is, the more you should be emphasizing accelerative and explosive training methods in your training (such as plyometrics). The lower your maximal strength is, the more you should simply work on improving that aspect.
Although I don't know the details of your specific situation, I'll provide an example. If you weigh 185 pounds and your maximal back squat (performed such that the tops of the thighs reach a parallel position when viewed from the side) is 275x1, this would represent a low to low-average level of maximal strength. The majority of your training should be devoted to developing maximal strength. On the other hand, if you weigh 185 and can squat 365, then this represents a relatively high level of maximal strength, and comparatively more of your efforts should be devoted toward developing explosive power.
At least a large percentage of your squats should be performed in a manner that corresponds to your particular style of vertical jumping. If you jump with a narrow stance and significant trunk lean, you won't benefit too much from a wide-stance, vertical trunk squat, for example. Videotape your vertical jump from the front and side and notice the width of your stance and your knee and hip angles. Then perform squats that resemble this position (not ALL of your squats should be done this way, but approximately 50% of them should). If you feel that you are already fairly strong and need to emphasize explosive strength, perform 8-12 sets of 2-3 reps in an accelerative manner (you won't come anywhere near failure) with a load that approximates 60% of your maximal ability in the whatever style of squat you're doing. If you need to improve maximal strength, perform 4-6 sets of 3-5 reps with heavy weights (still trying to accelerate). Additional exercises would include stiff-leg deadlifts, back extensions, reverse hypers, cleans and clean pulls, calf raises, deadlifts, and glute-ham raises. Lower body exercise should be done twice in a 7-10 day period.
The first thing to look at is your level of maximal strength in the muscles responsible for jumping which are (in approximate order of importance) glutes, hamstrings, quads, gastrocnemius, and low back musculature. The usual exercises used in assessing the maximal strength of these muscles are the back squat and/or deadlift.
Although I can't give you any exact numbers, in general, the greater your maximal strength is, the more you should be emphasizing accelerative and explosive training methods in your training (such as plyometrics). The lower your maximal strength is, the more you should simply work on improving that aspect.
Although I don't know the details of your specific situation, I'll provide an example. If you weigh 185 pounds and your maximal back squat (performed such that the tops of the thighs reach a parallel position when viewed from the side) is 275x1, this would represent a low to low-average level of maximal strength. The majority of your training should be devoted to developing maximal strength. On the other hand, if you weigh 185 and can squat 365, then this represents a relatively high level of maximal strength, and comparatively more of your efforts should be devoted toward developing explosive power.
At least a large percentage of your squats should be performed in a manner that corresponds to your particular style of vertical jumping. If you jump with a narrow stance and significant trunk lean, you won't benefit too much from a wide-stance, vertical trunk squat, for example. Videotape your vertical jump from the front and side and notice the width of your stance and your knee and hip angles. Then perform squats that resemble this position (not ALL of your squats should be done this way, but approximately 50% of them should). If you feel that you are already fairly strong and need to emphasize explosive strength, perform 8-12 sets of 2-3 reps in an accelerative manner (you won't come anywhere near failure) with a load that approximates 60% of your maximal ability in the whatever style of squat you're doing. If you need to improve maximal strength, perform 4-6 sets of 3-5 reps with heavy weights (still trying to accelerate). Additional exercises would include stiff-leg deadlifts, back extensions, reverse hypers, cleans and clean pulls, calf raises, deadlifts, and glute-ham raises. Lower body exercise should be done twice in a 7-10 day period.
coolcolj
New member
More useful vert tibits
> What is the best weight training exercise for increasing vertical
> jumping height?
The deadlift. That's the one single exercise. If you only want to do
one exercise for your vertical, do one set of 20-rep deadlifts once
every 7-10 days.
If you can perform more than one exercise, here's what gained me and
my friends a lot of vertical (I was able to touch a ten foot high
basketball goal with my head once after training for a few months with
this kind of a routine)
1. Slow full squat 1 x 20
2. Slow stiff leg deadlift 1 x 15
3. Slow standing calf raise 1 x 20
That and some sprinting or jumping in your particular sport will make
your vertical soar.
> What is the best weight training exercise for increasing vertical
> jumping height?
The deadlift. That's the one single exercise. If you only want to do
one exercise for your vertical, do one set of 20-rep deadlifts once
every 7-10 days.
If you can perform more than one exercise, here's what gained me and
my friends a lot of vertical (I was able to touch a ten foot high
basketball goal with my head once after training for a few months with
this kind of a routine)
1. Slow full squat 1 x 20
2. Slow stiff leg deadlift 1 x 15
3. Slow standing calf raise 1 x 20
That and some sprinting or jumping in your particular sport will make
your vertical soar.
coolcolj
New member
Glute and hamstrings are the 2 most important muscle groups for vert and sprint power.
This exercise works the hammies quite hard
http://www.cbathletics.com/issues/41.htm#Lunge
The lunge is a fantastic exercise that trains the glutes, hamstrings, quadriceps, and calves. It also stretches the hip flexors and demands balance and core stability. This exercise requires the physical abilities characterizing many athletic events. Therefore the lunge is a great strengthening exercise for sport performance and also stimulates muscle growth for those looking to improve the appearance of their lower body.
The lunge has many variations: forward, sideways, diagonal, and can even be performed onto a step, as all of these change the number of muscles recruited and vary the degree to which each muscle is stressed. BUT/ is there a superior technique? Well, I think there is. I recently discovered the hard way that the “reverse lunge” is the #1 contender for best lunge variation.
Here is the technique.
Stand upright, feet shoulder-width apart, holding light DB’s (dumbbells). Take a normal stride backward (with the “trailing leg”) and rest the toe of the trailing leg on the ground. Now squat down with the lead (“working”) leg controlling the weight of the body. Squat down so that the trailing knee touches the ground, and use the lead leg to return to the upright position.
The movement should be very similar to the push-off of a sprinting stride. This movement is called hip extension and will demand a forceful contraction of the hamstrings. The reverse lunge is also called the “split-squat” by some trainers and can be done with a barbell (across the trapezius as in the squat) as the resistance.
Three sets of 8 reps at a moderate weight will result in some pretty sore hamstrings the day after even if the reverse lunge is the only leg exercise performed on that day! Stick with this exercise and you will see improvements in sport performance, because it really focuses on the hamstrings and a movement pattern that is specific to almost all sports (soccer, b-ball, hockey, etc.).
Why is the reverse lunge better?
Do the movement. It feels very different than the standard lunge. The key here is that the working leg (the front, or lead leg) is always loaded, however this is not true during the forward lunge. In the traditional forward lunge, the lead leg gets to rest because it is unloaded when you step forward and back.
Again, remember that single-leg exercises are almost always superior to bilateral exercises like the leg press. This is true whether you are a bodybuilder or athlete, because single-leg exercises enable you to develop balanced strength between legs and do not let your stronger side dominate!
--------------------------------
BTW this movement is very similar to what your legs do in a sprint, and thus your hammies and glutes will blow up for max vert. Your glutes will be strirated as well if you get lean enough
Check this out, this chick does lots of reverse lunges on a smith machine - freaky hammies! Heh as a Guy I would be proud of these hams, this girl is a monster!
This exercise works the hammies quite hard
http://www.cbathletics.com/issues/41.htm#Lunge
The lunge is a fantastic exercise that trains the glutes, hamstrings, quadriceps, and calves. It also stretches the hip flexors and demands balance and core stability. This exercise requires the physical abilities characterizing many athletic events. Therefore the lunge is a great strengthening exercise for sport performance and also stimulates muscle growth for those looking to improve the appearance of their lower body.
The lunge has many variations: forward, sideways, diagonal, and can even be performed onto a step, as all of these change the number of muscles recruited and vary the degree to which each muscle is stressed. BUT/ is there a superior technique? Well, I think there is. I recently discovered the hard way that the “reverse lunge” is the #1 contender for best lunge variation.
Here is the technique.
Stand upright, feet shoulder-width apart, holding light DB’s (dumbbells). Take a normal stride backward (with the “trailing leg”) and rest the toe of the trailing leg on the ground. Now squat down with the lead (“working”) leg controlling the weight of the body. Squat down so that the trailing knee touches the ground, and use the lead leg to return to the upright position.
The movement should be very similar to the push-off of a sprinting stride. This movement is called hip extension and will demand a forceful contraction of the hamstrings. The reverse lunge is also called the “split-squat” by some trainers and can be done with a barbell (across the trapezius as in the squat) as the resistance.
Three sets of 8 reps at a moderate weight will result in some pretty sore hamstrings the day after even if the reverse lunge is the only leg exercise performed on that day! Stick with this exercise and you will see improvements in sport performance, because it really focuses on the hamstrings and a movement pattern that is specific to almost all sports (soccer, b-ball, hockey, etc.).
Why is the reverse lunge better?
Do the movement. It feels very different than the standard lunge. The key here is that the working leg (the front, or lead leg) is always loaded, however this is not true during the forward lunge. In the traditional forward lunge, the lead leg gets to rest because it is unloaded when you step forward and back.
Again, remember that single-leg exercises are almost always superior to bilateral exercises like the leg press. This is true whether you are a bodybuilder or athlete, because single-leg exercises enable you to develop balanced strength between legs and do not let your stronger side dominate!
--------------------------------
BTW this movement is very similar to what your legs do in a sprint, and thus your hammies and glutes will blow up for max vert. Your glutes will be strirated as well if you get lean enough
Check this out, this chick does lots of reverse lunges on a smith machine - freaky hammies! Heh as a Guy I would be proud of these hams, this girl is a monster!
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