Something i read...

[ZZuluZ]

Btrue,

" .....do a true 6 rep max...is hard. I don't care if it is a 1RM or a 20RM...it is hard and you should feel fatigued afterward. "

I, personally don't feel all that fatigued. However, if it's a 10RM or 20RM I would be.

"...yes, you are telling me but not showing me any evidence. I have competed in strength and endurance sports...and know that my body would not perform well on contest day if I did a 3-6RM before my heavy set or event."

I have read a great deal on this topic and feel confident there is evidence to back it up. Lots of it can be found on T-mag.

" .....Where? From what I see, people on here like aka-tapout and powerlifterjay are not saying to do this type of thing on contest day either. They say that it is a good training tool...but not a contest tool. "

From Strength Coaches such as Francis, Poliquin, King, Tsatsouline...just to name a few.


" .....Where? Do you mean unracking the weight so you know how it feels? What if you unrack it and it feels like the weight of the world? Talk about losing TONS of confidence. Once again, are you talking about doing a 6RM or a walkout with a super heavy weight on contest day? "

We are confusing both issues here. I'll explain further down.

"....Where? I am not for sure if I see the guys of the WSB club doing a 6rm before they walk up to the platform to do a world record squat. I'd like to think that Chuck V had taken some serious weights in the gym on various exercises before he squatted 1k. I have a very good friend who set the world record in the squat and bench press in 1995 with a squat of 1004 at a bodyweight of 239. He did NOT do a 6RM or a walkout with 1200 before he went up there to squat 1004. Hence...I can make an empirical observation on this theory. This is just an empirical observation from world class athletes. I don't see pljay doing a 6rm on the bench press just before he goes for a new PR at a meet either...but maybe I am wrong...I am not a powerlifter.
"

I think you've got both issues confused. A supramaximal hold is used before a 1RM attempt. However, in the example I was using with ben johnson he is going from a 6RM to a SPRINT not 1RM. Hence, he is still getting the neural benefit you would get from doing a 1RM after a supramaximal set.

" .....Yes...I think and have observed. Give it a try...I encourage you to do so. Encourage GF, Chuck V, Steve Goggins, etc...to try this too. "

I don't recommend a 6RM for powerlifters, it was an example of neural potentiation. For powerlifters a supramaximal set might be more ideal.

Cheers,

-Zulu

 

[b fold the truth]

Ok...you have stated that Coaches/Trainers suggest this theory. You have not given me any world class athletes who go by this. Any powerlifters do this?

I still reccomend you doing this. And I still argue that doing an all out 6RM WILL fatigue you. How can it not? It is a 6 Rep Maximum!!! That means JUST shy of failure. That means that you could NOT have done 7 reps...ONLY 6.

I just look at powerlifters and other world class athletes and don't see them doing this. I am sure that there are articles that say that this theory MIGHT work...but I don't see the top lifters doing it. There are also articles out there that say that V2G will enhance this and that and this and that...and that andro is the answer to your prayers...but that does not make them true.

I will stick with what is proven.

B True

 

[ZZuluZ]

"Ok...you have stated that Coaches/Trainers suggest this theory. You have not given me any world class athletes who go by this. Any powerlifters do this?
"

Ben Johnson for one. Hundreds of strength athletes. Again, Poliquin, Tsatsouline, Hatfield, King are renowned coaches with many atheltes. Not too mention many of them have amazing poundages. Including Hatfield who's squatted 1014 at age 45.

" I still reccomend you doing this. And I still argue that doing an all out 6RM WILL fatigue you. How can it not? It is a 6 Rep Maximum!!! That means JUST shy of failure. That means that you could NOT have done 7 reps...ONLY 6. "

Where did I say this? Ben did a 6RM with a weight he could have done EIGHT times.

"
I just look at powerlifters and other world class athletes and don't see them doing this. I am sure that there are articles that say that this theory MIGHT work...but I don't see the top lifters doing it. There are also articles out there that say that V2G will enhance this and that and this and that...and that andro is the answer to your prayers...but that does not make them true."

I'm just glad most people are willing to evaluate the current weightlifting paradigms. Again, this is a very well known technique. Whether or not it should be used on contest day is debatable? How it should be utilized is debatable. That it is effective is without doubt IMHO.

-Zulu

 

[b fold the truth]

When did a 6RM become an 8RM? If it is a 6RM...and he could have done 8 with it...then it was NOT a 6RM. He did 6 reps with what would have been an 8 Rep Max set. So...he could do 8 reps with 600 with no support gear and under 200lbs? Seems as if the story is getting bigger.

My entire post(s) deals with if it should be one on contest day. I am glad that you see it as debatable...that means that it is not a fact.

You still hold true that Ben Johnson squatted 600 for 6 reps (could have done it for 8) before setting the world record? Where is this literature?

You say that this is very well known...this technique. What are you speaking of? Maybe I am totally misunderstanding you here...but are you saying that lifters should do a 6RM before a meet PR, they should do a static hold with a super heavy weight on contest day, or that they should train with the idealology of including these techniques into their contest preperation?

B True

 

[I'D RATHER BE DEADLIFTING]

My personal experience with the issue a hand:

Don't mind the crappy PR's that I hit. I'm a weak biatch.


Squats:
Warmed up, missed 315, walkout wth 345, hit 315 PR

Bench:
Lockouts up to about 315 or so, benched 215 raw PR



these were both a few months ago. Only times I tried that. I am gonna work wakouts into my routine when I am nearing a max squat. Gonna try the static holds for bench soon too.

 

[Adam MacKinnon]

Ive only tried this on bench and what i did was work up to a heavy single on 4"lockouts then after those (with sufficeint rest) i went and did sets of close grip benches smashing my old PR's on them.
I've never really tried them on squats yet. I may try soon

 

[ZZuluZ]

" When did a 6RM become an 8RM? If it is a 6RM...and he could have done 8 with it...then it was NOT a 6RM. He did 6 reps with what would have been an 8 Rep Max set. So...he could do 8 reps with 600 with no support gear and under 200lbs? Seems as if the story is getting bigger.
"

I never said 6RM...I said 6 reps. If I did say 6RM then that was a mistake.

" My entire post(s) deals with if it should be one on contest day. I am glad that you see it as debatable...that means that it is not a fact. "

Indeed. I don't claim to know very much about contest like preparation as I've never experienced it first hand and can only rely on what I've read on the issue. However, I think there is solid evidence that a supramaximal weight before a 1RM attempt may be beneficial [if not used previously, and done properly]

" You still hold true that Ben Johnson squatted 600 for 6 reps (could have done it for 8) before setting the world record? Where is this literature? "

Ok, well since you seem to doubt me on this....I'll get a link for you if I can find it. Maybe I was slightly innacurate, but I believe most of that was correct.

" You say that this is very well known...this technique. What are you speaking of? Maybe I am totally misunderstanding you here...but are you saying that lifters should do a 6RM before a meet PR, they should do a static hold with a super heavy weight on contest day, or that they should train with the idealology of including these techniques into their contest preperation? "

I realize I've been rather vague. I was referring to neural potentation in general. For the powerlifter, a supraximal weight is ideal.....for a sprinter a 6RM is more beneficial. For a bodybuilder a 20RM after a 1RM is most beneficial. However the principal is the same. However, these techniques will not work forever and should be used sparingly. They work very well from what I've read however.

Link coming, hopefully.

Cheers,

-Zulu

 

[ZZuluZ]

My sincere apologies, it was a 3RM max.

http://www.testosterone.net/html/58princ.html

I read the same thing on protrainer.com but I really don't recall the article.

-Zulu

 

[vtec96]

Great, a thread I really like ....

You can see baseball plyers doing a variation of this all the time... They use several heavy wieghts on the bat while warming up, swing it several times, then when they take them off it feels really light!!!

Back to the original idea about static holds BEFORE a Max attempt..... Im not sure if this works for a Max, but would really like to see if this works while training, such as on a DE day or regular bench day.... I read in another post where they recommended to do these static holds for 3 sets of 10 seconds after benching. They said this would increase there bench like 40lbs after 2-3 months!! Not sure the exact #'s but they said it really worked. I think something like this would really work for the CNS, the joints and all the other body parts to get used to the heavy weights!!
Any ideas on this?

 

[b fold the truth]

The article did not say he did 600 for any reps. The program does not discuss intensity or percentages either. It also does not say that Ben Johnson actually DID do this before he set the record...it just said that Ben Johnson would do this...as in for instance...

The article does state the use of a 3RM...that means a 3 rep maximum weight. I am still not for sure if you mean that a 3RM is a max or not...very confusing.

With training...this could be a very good idea. I may actually use these for a pre-exhaust. I think that so many times people miss maximum attempts because they were not properly warmed up, they did not have their mind set correct, they just planned on missing it, or their form was incorrect.

Still...when I see 1000 lb squatters doing this on contest day...I'll believe that it works on contest day.

B True