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Push/pull Or Bb Split

cmarcell

New member
(Okay so push/pull is a BB split, didn't know how else to word it)

So I'm 23, been lifting for 3 years now. Also did the 3x5 and 5x5 programs. Worked great. My strength gains shot up. I gained weight. But I'm stalling. It's time for me to turn my attention to another routine for a few months before going back to the 5x5. I looked into HST, BB splits, the whole 9 yards. I'm choosing between 2 basic routines (each with a few variations). Just looking to see which you guys have preferred.

Option 1: PUSH/PULL Routine
4 Days a week
Pull on Mondays and Thursdays
Push on Tuesdays and Fridays (or reversed. not sure which is ideal)

PROS: Work each muscle 2x each week
Keep proportional

CONS: Only 1-2 exercises per body part

Variation 1: Have a heavy day and medium day (heavy day 5 rep sets, medium day 10 rep sets). Do medium pull, heavy push, heavy push, medium pull, in that order.

Variation 2: Keep consistent. Do just 8 rep sets. On Thursdays/Friday just repeat Monday/Tuesday.

Variation 3: Have a heavy day, light day. But instead of changing reps and weights, change exercises. For example, doing back. On the heavy day do barbell rows and deadlifts. On the light day do cable rows and lat pulldowns.

Variation 4: 3 Workouts a week. Just rotate push, pull, etc.

Option 2: BB SPLIT
Monday- Chest/Tri's
Tuesday- Back/Bi's
Thursday-Legs/Shoulders
Friday- Arms (light arms)

PROS: Allows for 3-4 exercises per major body part

CONS: Train muscles 1x per week (besides core)

Variation 1: 3 workouts a week. Get rid of the extra arm day.

Variation 2: Keep 4 workouts a week, but repeat Chest/Tri's on Friday, and keep rotation like so.

Variation 3: Do legs one day, shoulders another.

Variation 4: Keep as is.
 
That post was long enough, but I wanted to add one thing. My legs are progressing nicely, although I need to throw in some minor calf work. My back is also looking good in terms of progress. But my chest and arms are lagging. That's the reason for the extra arm day (an increase in tri work especially would help with something like my bench). I've been used to only 3 direct sets of tri or bi work each week, and I need to increase that.

Thanks for anything you guys want to say about this long ass post.
 
Bro, if you've stalled... consider doing a GVT program. It seems to only work for a person once... the first time they do it... but that first time is typically magic. It's tough, but it is worth it.

If you can, pull up Polquin's original article from MM2k. It's about 14 years old... but that was the program that rocked it for people.
 
Here it is...


By: Charles Poliquin

Supersets and tri-sets allow you to perform a lot of work in a short period of time. The rest-pause method allows you to use heavier weights, so you can recruit the higher threshold muscle fibers, and eccentric training enables you to overcome strength plateaus. The bottom line is that almost any training method will work (provided you do it with intensity!), at least for the few weeks it takes for your body to adapt to it. There is, however, one training system that stands above all the rest. It's brutally hard, but I've found it to be a very effective way to pack on muscle fast!

In strength-coaching circles, this method is often called the "ten sets method." Because it has its roots in German-speaking countries, I like to call it German Volume Training. To the best of my knowledge, this training system originated in Germany in the mid-'70's and was popularized by Rolf Feser, who was then the National Coach of Weightlifting. A similar protocol was promoted by Vince Gironda in the U.S., but regardless of who actually invented it, it works.

In Germany, the ten-sets method was used in the off-season to help weightlifters gain lean body mass. It was so efficient that lifters routinely moved up a full weight class within 12 weeks.

It was the base program of Canadian weightlifter Jacques Demers, Silver Medallist in the Los Angeles Olympic Games. Jacques was known in weightlifting circles for his massive thighs, and he gives credit to the German method for achieving such a spectacular level of hypertrophy. The same method was also used by Bev Francis in her early days of bodybuilding to pack on muscle.

The program works because it targets a group of motor units, exposing them to an extensive volume of repeated efforts, specifically, 10 sets of a single exercise. The body adapts to the extraordinary stress by hypertrophying the targeted fibers. To say this program adds muscle fast is probably an understatement. Gains of ten pounds or more in six weeks are not uncommon, even in experienced lifters!

Goals & Guidelines

The goal of the German Volume Training method is to complete ten sets of ten reps with the same weight for each exercise. You want to begin with a weight you could lift for 20 reps to failure if you had to. For most people, on most exercises, that would represent 60% of their 1RM load. Therefore, if you can bench press 300 lbs for 1 rep, you would use 180 lbs for this exercise.

For lifters new to this method, I recommend using the following body-part splits:

Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5
Chest & Back Legs & Abs Off Arms & Shoulders Off


When using this program or any other, you should keep a detailed journal of the exact sets/reps and rest intervals performed, and only count the repetitions completed in strict form. Here are a few more guidelines to ensure optimal progress:

Rest Intervals: When bodybuilders start with this method, they often question its value for the first several sets because the weight won't feel heavy enough. However, there is minimal rest between sets (about 60 seconds when performed in sequence and 90-120 seconds when performed as a superset), which incurs cumulative fatigue. (Interestingly enough, you might find you get stronger again during the eighth and ninth sets. This is because of a short-term neural adaptation.) Because of the importance of the rest intervals, you should use a stopwatch to keep the rest intervals constant. This is very important, as it becomes tempting to lengthen the rest time as you fatigue.

Tempo: For long-range movements such as squats, dips, and chins, use a 4-0-2 tempo; this means you would lower the weight in four seconds and immediately change direction and lift for two seconds. For movements such as curls and triceps extensions, use a 3-0-2 tempo.

Number of Exercises: One, and only one, exercise per body part should be performed. Therefore, select exercises that recruit a lot of muscle mass. Triceps kickbacks and leg extensions are definitely out; squats and bench presses are definitely in. For supplementary work for individual body parts (like triceps and biceps), you can do 3 sets of 10-20 reps.

Training Frequency: Because this is such an intense program, it'll take you longer to recover. In fact, if you're familiar with the writings of Peter Sisco and John Little, you'll find that the average "Power Factor Rating" of the 10-sets method is about 8 billion. Consequently, one training session every four to five days per body part is plenty.

Overload Mechanism: Once you're able to do 10 sets of 10 with constant rest intervals, increase the weight on the bar by 4% to 5%, and repeat the process. Refrain from using forced reps, negatives, or burns. The volume of the work will take care of the hypertrophy. Expect to have some deep muscle soreness without having to resort to set prolonging techniques. In fact, after doing a quad and hams session with this method, it takes the average bodybuilder about five days to stop limping.

Beginner / Intermediate Program: Phase 1

This is a sample routine based on a five-day cycle. Once you've used this method for six workouts per body part, it's time to move on to a more intensive program for a three-week period.

Day 1 - Chest and Back

Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Decline Dumbbell Presses, Semi-Supinated Grip(palms facing each other) 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
A-2 Chin-Ups (palms facing you) 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
B-1 Incline Dumbbell Flyes 3 10-12 3 0 2 0 60 sec
B-2 One-Arm Dumbbell Rows 3 10-12 3 0 2 0 60 sec


Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset. Incidentally, I only recommend three sets of ten in this program for the "B" exercises. The "B" exercises constitute supplementary work, and doing ten sets of them would result in overtraining.

Day 2 - Legs and Abs

Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Back Squats 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
A-2 Lying Leg Curls 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
B-1 Low-Cable Pull-Ins* 3 15 - 20 2 0 2 0 60 sec
B-2 Seated Calf Raises 3 15 - 20 2 0 2 0 60 sec


(*Take a weightlifting belt and buckle it. Attach it to the low pulley of a cable crossover machine. Lie down on your back in front of the machine, and hook your feet in the belt. Then pull your knees towards your chest.)

Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset.

Day 3 - Off

Day 4 - Arms and Shoulders

Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Parallel Bar Dips 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
A-2 Incline Hammer Curls 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
B-1 Bent-Over Dumbbell Lateral Raises* 3 10 - 12 2 0 X 0 60 sec
B-2 Seated DumbbellLateral Raises 3 10 - 12 2 0 X 0 60 sec


(*While seated on the edge of a bench with your torso bent over, raise the dumbbells out to the side, making sure the top two knuckles (the ones closest to your thumb) are in line with your ears at the top of the movement.)

Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset. "X" in the tempo means to move as fast as possible, keeping the weight under control.

Day 5 - Off

Click Here For A Printable Version Of Phase 1.

Beginner/Intermediate Program: Phase 2

After six of those five-day cycles, I recommend you do a three-week phase where the average set is six to eight reps, and do only four to six sets per body part over a five-day cycle, or you can do any other split that suits your recovery pattern. After this three-week block, you can return to the German Volume Training method by doing the following ten sets of six reps routine. In the exercises that are prescribed for 10 sets, use a load you'd normally be able to do 12 repetitions with. The goal in this phase is to do ten sets of six with that load.

SAMPLE 10 sets of 6 routine:

Day 1 - Chest and Back

Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Incline Dumbbell Presses 10 6 5 0 1 0 90 sec
A-2 Wide-Grip Pull-Ups(palms facing away from you) 10 6 5 0 1 0 90 sec
B-1 Flat Dumbbell Flyes 3 6 3 0 1 0 60 sec
B-2 Bent-Over Rows with EZ Bar 3 6 3 0 1 0 60 sec


Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset.

Day 2 - Legs and Abs

Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Bent-Knee Deadlifts 10 6 5 0 1 0 90 sec
A-2 Seated Leg Curls 10 6 5 0 1 0 90 sec
B-1 Twisting Crunches 3 12 - 15 3 0 3 0 60 sec
B-2 Standing Calf Raises 3 12 - 15 3 0 3 0 60 sec


Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset.

Day 3 - Off

Day 4 - Arms and Shoulders

Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Parallel Bar Dips 10 6 5 0 1 0 90 sec
A-2 Incline Hammer Curls 10 6 5 0 1 0 90 sec
B-1 Bent-Over Dumbbell Lateral Raises* 3 10 - 12 2 0 X 0 60 sec
B-2 Seated DumbbellLateral Raises 3 10 - 12 2 0 X 0 60 sec


(*While seated on the edge of a bench with your torso bent over, raise the dumbbells out to the side, making sure the top two knuckles (the ones closest to your thumb) are in line with your ears at the top of the movement.)

Notes: Rest 90 seconds between each "A" exercise and each superset; rest 60 seconds between each "B" exercise and each superset.

Day 5 - Off

Click Here For A Printable Version Of Phase 2.

German Volume Training For The Advanced Trainee

For the advanced trainee, variety in training is even more important to elicit adaptation. With the advanced trainee, I use a system called the four percent method. That is, I increase the load four to five percent every workout for two workouts in a row, and I reduce the target rep by one rep for every weight increase. Then I reduce the weight four to five percent and increase the rep bracket to its original starting point. Since this is very mathematical, let's look at an example that will clearly illustrate this point.

Let's say you can barbell curl 100 lbs for 12 strict reps, and you haven't been able to increase the amount of reps or weight on this exercise. Here's a sample routine that would increase your curling strength:

Workout 1: 10 sets of 6 @ 110 lbs
Workout 2: 10 sets of 5 @ 115 lbs
Workout 3: 10 sets of 4 @ 120 lbs
Workout 4: 10 sets of 6 @ 115 lbs
Workout 5: 10 sets of 5 @ 120 lbs
Workout 6: 10 sets of 4 @ 125 lbs
Workout 7:

Test day. At this point, you would curl 120 for 12 reps, a 9% gain over 6 workouts!

Here's an example of the German Volume Training method with the 4% to 5% method for someone who can bench press 300 lbs 10 times in strict form:

Workout 1: 10 sets of 5 @ 300 lbs
Workout 2: 10 sets of 4 @ 315 lbs
Workout 3: 10 sets of 3 @ 330 lbs
Workout 4: 10 sets of 5 @ 315 lbs
Workout 5: 10 sets of 4 @ 330 lbs
Workout 6: 10 sets of 3 @ 345 lbs
Workout 7:

Test day. At this point, you would bench press 330 lbs for 10 reps.

To recap, perform the Beginner/Intermediate Phase 1 program for six weeks (six 5-day cycles). Then, progress to the Beginner/Intermediate Phase 2 program for three weeks. After that, you'll be ready to graduate to the Advanced program.

This program is elegant in its simplicity, but that's what the Germans do best. Just ask any Mercedes Benz or BMW owner.



[email protected]
 
10 sets of 10 with a 90 second rest is a challenge at first... but very do able.

I gained 7-8 lbs of muscle the first time I followed this program... and the caliper test showed my BF going down by 2-3%. I've never seen any other routine cause that kind of quick muscle growth.
 
I have not tried GVT(i'm scared) but Poilquin is the man. I have been using some of his principles for my shoulders (tri sets, omni sets) and they are responding very well. Thanks for the post SG
 
jocephus said:
I have not tried GVT(i'm scared) but Poilquin is the man. I have been using some of his principles for my shoulders (tri sets, omni sets) and they are responding very well. Thanks for the post SG
Give it a try bro. I won't say it isn't daunting... but you can do it... and when you are done with the routine you are going to be flabberghasted at how in the world could a routine possibly give you that kind of results in that short of time.

Your first cycle of GVT is typically the only one the magic happens on... but the work is so worth the gain.
 
I've decided against this GVT...so back to my original post before this gets hijacked...any other pieces of advice?
 
cmarcell said:
(Okay so push/pull is a BB split, didn't know how else to word it)

So I'm 23, been lifting for 3 years now. Also did the 3x5 and 5x5 programs. Worked great. My strength gains shot up. I gained weight. But I'm stalling. It's time for me to turn my attention to another routine for a few months before going back to the 5x5. I looked into HST, BB splits, the whole 9 yards. I'm choosing between 2 basic routines (each with a few variations). Just looking to see which you guys have preferred.

Option 1: PUSH/PULL Routine
4 Days a week
Pull on Mondays and Thursdays
Push on Tuesdays and Fridays (or reversed. not sure which is ideal)

PROS: Work each muscle 2x each week
Keep proportional

CONS: Only 1-2 exercises per body part

Variation 1: Have a heavy day and medium day (heavy day 5 rep sets, medium day 10 rep sets). Do medium pull, heavy push, heavy push, medium pull, in that order.

Variation 2: Keep consistent. Do just 8 rep sets. On Thursdays/Friday just repeat Monday/Tuesday.

Variation 3: Have a heavy day, light day. But instead of changing reps and weights, change exercises. For example, doing back. On the heavy day do barbell rows and deadlifts. On the light day do cable rows and lat pulldowns.

Variation 4: 3 Workouts a week. Just rotate push, pull, etc.

Option 2: BB SPLIT
Monday- Chest/Tri's
Tuesday- Back/Bi's
Thursday-Legs/Shoulders
Friday- Arms (light arms)

PROS: Allows for 3-4 exercises per major body part

CONS: Train muscles 1x per week (besides core)

Variation 1: 3 workouts a week. Get rid of the extra arm day.

Variation 2: Keep 4 workouts a week, but repeat Chest/Tri's on Friday, and keep rotation like so.

Variation 3: Do legs one day, shoulders another.

Variation 4: Keep as is.

I am currently doing something similar to what you are suggesting.....

Moday: back/bis
Tuesday: legs
Wednesday: off/cardio
Thursday: chest/shoulders/tris
Friday: off/cardio
Saturday: back/bis
Suday: off/cardio
Moday: legs
Tuesday: Chest/shoulders/tris
etc, etc

I am hitting everything twice in 8 days and using two different work outs each time. The days off change depending on my schedule but the order of the workouts stay the same. I have an A and a B workout with both having about the same volume just a different exercise selection. For example....

Back A:
Pull ups 4 x max reps bw
Rack Deadlifts from just below knee 4 x 6-12
Dumbell Row 3 x 10-12
4-5 sets of bis

Back B:
Chin ups 4 x 6-8 bw+25
Pendlay Rows 4 x 6 x12
HammerStrength high row 3 x 10-12
4-5 sets of bis

This is what is working for me and it is designed to address my current weaknesses. I rotate the workouts (A and B) to allow myself to train certain exercises heavy without overtraining. I will do this for 8 weeks and take a week off. Previously I have either trained for powerlifting of I have used a total body type training split. This type of split has been working very good and is a nice change of pace for me.
 
A 4-day/week push-pull program is a solid routine. I'd recommend picking the very best compound exercises for each muscle group (e.g. bench, squat, row) and repeating them on the 2nd session. Those exercises are the best for a reason. I would, however, change the rep scheme up. For example, if you choose bench press for chest, you could do 3x12 on Monday and 5x5 on Thursday.

I followed something similar and got really good results. Beyond that, the bottom line is that every variation you mentioned is going to work. The thing you really need to focus on is progression: keep track of what you're lifting and make sure you're adding more weight to the bar (or more reps, or less rest time between sets, etc.) Progression should be the #1 priority.
 
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