Ian King:Mass Moves

[wnt2bBeast]

thought this was a good read..check it out if you want!!
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle...B61C641FC5697488.ba13?article=04-036-training

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

great article- with one exception-

"my favorite shoulder press variation is the seated, behind the neck barbell press with a medium grip."

behind-the neck presses??? maybe back in the day- but todays research shows their more harmful than helpful. Its an unnatural alignment of your arms/ delts & lead to rotator tears, impingement of the shoulder joint & dangerous to your neck joints.

Ian must of made a typo!! LOL.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

great article- with one exception-

"my favorite shoulder press variation is the seated, behind the neck barbell press with a medium grip."

behind-the neck presses??? maybe back in the day- but todays research shows their more harmful than helpful. Its an unnatural alignment of your arms/ delts & lead to rotator tears, impingement of the shoulder joint & dangerous to your neck joints.

Ian must of made a typo!! LOL.

I agree..I never do presses from behind..

 

[InTraining]

Great article...read it last night...

Agree about the BTN stuff......

Though I would put dips ahead of flat bench in terms of building mass....

 

[Texas Ranger]

If more and more guys based their training programs on these exercises, we might actually see BIGGER, STRONGER bodybuilders.

 

[mekannik]

great article- with one exception-

"my favorite shoulder press variation is the seated, behind the neck barbell press with a medium grip."

behind-the neck presses??? maybe back in the day- but todays research shows their more harmful than helpful. Its an unnatural alignment of your arms/ delts & lead to rotator tears, impingement of the shoulder joint & dangerous to your neck joints.

Ian must of made a typo!! LOL.

Actually that is NOT a type. Ian has commented on this topic a number of times. The "danger" comes down to predisposition for injury. I do not have the full list but Ian broke it down that behind the neck pushing/pulling can be done by people with:
- no prior shoulder injuries
- no limitations to shoulder movement (brought about by shoulder injury)
- no limits set by doctor/therapist

Ian's main point was that all reps should be done to the same depth - injury most likely results from the last few half reps with terrible form. In regards to the relative topic of "dangerous", the analogy often used is that for some people crossing the street is dangerous, while climbing Mount Everest is not for other.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Actually that is NOT a type. Ian has commented on this topic a number of times. The "danger" comes down to predisposition for injury. I do not have the full list but Ian broke it down that behind the neck pushing/pulling can be done by people with:
- no prior shoulder injuries
- no limitations to shoulder movement (brought about by shoulder injury)
- no limits set by doctor/therapist

Ian's main point was that all reps should be done to the same depth - injury most likely results from the last few half reps with terrible form. In regards to the relative topic of "dangerous", the analogy often used is that for some people crossing the street is dangerous, while climbing Mount Everest is not for other.

im pretty sure ms bev was being sarcastic about the typo lol..i just think doing presses to the front or d-bell are just as effective if not better and provide less risk for injury..everyone has their own preference..i just dont see how btn are necessary whereas you better be skwattin and doing deads!!

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

Actually that is NOT a type. Ian has commented on this topic a number of times. The "danger" comes down to predisposition for injury. I do not have the full list but Ian broke it down that behind the neck pushing/pulling can be done by people with:
- no prior shoulder injuries
- no limitations to shoulder movement (brought about by shoulder injury)
- no limits set by doctor/therapist

Ian's main point was that all reps should be done to the same depth - injury most likely results from the last few half reps with terrible form. In regards to the relative topic of "dangerous", the analogy often used is that for some people crossing the street is dangerous, while climbing Mount Everest is not for other.

check it out-

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461545

I agree w/you...what I disagree with is Ian calling them a "mass builder". They really arent because like you said "injury most likely results from the last few half reps with terrible form"-- exactly & its the last few reps on any lift where the muslce is getting the most benefit!! It doesnt make sense anyway when BTN presses has a far greater injury factor @ heavy loads than all other compounds lifts. So you have to do BTN presses light- therefore no mass building!

btw- there are other safer alternatives to building shoulders, there arent other alternatives to climbing Mt. Everest! LOL.

 

[d3track]

very nice
i need that article everytime i think of the bench/curl jocks, and that my arms would look bigger if i didnt have any back or thigh mass

 

[mekannik]

check it out-

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461545

From the article - Doing presses behind the neck for a sixty year old lady really doesn’t make any sense. But seventeen time world powerlifting champion Ed Coan, at the recent Weight-Training Injury symposium held in Toronto, stated that pressing behind the neck really tightened up his shoulder joint and he was able to substantially increase his bench press. Biomechanically, Ed Coan has the shoulder flexibility and is able to do this exercise with minimized injury potential.

And although the other authors stated (except King) disagreed - we can still infer that there is still a viable, useful reason for including these excercises.

I agree w/you...what I disagree with is Ian calling them a "mass builder". They really arent because like you said "injury most likely results from the last few half reps with terrible form"-- exactly & its the last few reps on any lift where the muslce is getting the most benefit!! It doesnt make sense anyway when BTN presses has a far greater injury factor @ heavy loads than all other compounds lifts. So you have to do BTN presses light- therefore no mass building!

My question here would be: is mass only built by heavy load? Or is there something to be said for multiple, non-failure sets volume building movements? (The non-failure sets are a key point in alot of King's articles, both from a physical and psychological training perspective).