How unhealthy is bodybuilding? How long are you expected to live? etc

[Bigsatan13]

live fast, die young, be a beautifull corpse

And get burried in a "V" shaped coffin!

 

[MrMuscle]

And get burried in a "V" shaped coffin!

Fo sho bro

 

[Blood&Iron]

Let's see here. First, none of that had to do with Plato. Secondly, I think it's funny that you mention the viking ship thing. I've always planned on going out that way. That's odd, eh? Thirdly, and most importantly, yes you did imply that tons of them were dying. You said, that they were "dropping like flies." That's an expression used when you mean to imply that many, many people are dying. Maybe you should have said that a few, a very few, are dying now and again.

1)In one of the Platonic dialogues(Again, I think it's entitled "Crito" but not sure) Socrates states exactly what you said when his friends try to convince him to leave Athens to escape his sentence of death. (Though maybe it was one of the pre-Socratic sophists, but I don't think so.)
2)Well, three bodybuilders(There were all well-known.) of Arnold's era, all of whom I mentioned, died within a year of one another. I think that qualifies as "dropping like flies." But again, I didn't say there isn't an equal or greater number that are still around. Magic Johnson is still alive for Christ's sake, but I'd hardly call him healthy. Frankly, I'm waiting for him to kick it. I am a firm believer in consequences.

 

[Grizzly]

1)In one of the Platonic dialogues(Again, I think it's entitled "Crito" but not sure) Socrates states exactly what you said when his friends try to convince him to leave Athens to escape his sentence of death. (Though maybe it was one of the pre-Socratic sophists, but I don't think so.)

You are correct. It was in the Crito. However, I didn't get it from there. That's one of the biggest problems I have with being a philosophy student. I honestly couldn't give a single fuck as to what someone else has said. I'm only interested in my own personal philosophies. Unfortunately, due to being born several thousand years too late, many others have come before me and have said what I would say. Damn my poor choice of birth! So, my original point was simply that I wasn't quoting Plato. He did, indeed, say that, but I wasn't using his logic.

 

[Grizzly]

I think you mean only the strongest survive.......or perhaps those with the best functional physique (which isnt what most bodybuilders have) survive. Then theres only the smartest survive......

How big figures in survival I dont know.......it slows you down, gives you a shitty power to weight ratio, your food requirements are huge.......all of which means you have a lesser chance of survival.

Anybody else get tired of all the macho bullshit associated with size??

Merry Xmas.....

Technically, being bigger will make you survive better. First off, animals are loathe to attack a much larger animal. I don't usually get into fights because I plain scare the shit out of most people. It is true about the food requirements, but someone with an extra 50lbs of muscle can survive in a starvation situation longer than a smaller person because their body has more to eat of itself. And, who cares about power to weight ratios? Only the smaller guys who want to say "well, I lift more according to bodyweight." Well, the elephant can still kick the shit out of the mouse, despite the fact that the mouse can lift more according to the bodyweight formula. (Actually, I don't know about the whole mouse thing, but I didn't want to completely rip off the passage in Power Mag.)

Who ever said that powerlifting helps with functional strength? It measures three lifts that are all 1) assisted with suits, wraps and shirts 2) performed in a very technical manner which enables the lifter to lift more. I don't know. I've never been in a situation where a 500lb bench would help me any. Especially since, even if I was pinned under a car, I most probably couldn't get into proper benching position.

Anyone ever get sick of small powerlifters thinking that size doesn't matter? Let's just face it. We (bodybuilders) think you look like shit and you(powerlifters) think we're weak. Guess we're just always going to disagree.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Yeah we'll have to disagree But there are powerlifters that look good as well as being strong.

I like the mouse/elephant analogy.....but the difference between bodybuilders and others isnt necessarily that big. So chances are the smaller guy is faster as well as matching the strength of the big bodybuilder. That sounds like a survival strategy to me. Coming to think of it, how many of the bodybuilders here are actually big?? Very few seem to be over 250. As far as powerlifting and functional strength. I work my way through university on a construction site, I think its fair to say that the deads and squats stand me in good stead. Powerlifters do use equipment at meets.....sure. But they train without it for much of the time. They use equipment in competition because the rules allow it and it means they lift more.....but it isnt a lot more. In the deadlift, equipment doesnt help either......

Incidentally, I didnt focus on powerlifters as examples of functional strength.....strongman competitors would be a good example of functional strength (I just wish I had the time, balls and resources to train that way).....many track and field athletes are stupid strong at light weights.

On the largest survive thing......if you are carrying 50lb more bodyweight you might need the extra ability to withstand starvation because you'd never be able to catch any food......you'd be a vegetarian (veg's cant run away) pretty damn quick......and prob wouldnt weigh 50lb more for much longer (ok so I exaggerated a bit here ).

So we agree to disagree I guess . Sorry about the kinda disjointed ramblings above. That macho bullshit from a little skinny guy (who posts like he is huge) just got on my nerves a bit!!

Merry Xmas

Technically, being bigger will make you survive better. First off, animals are loathe to attack a much larger animal. I don't usually get into fights because I plain scare the shit out of most people. It is true about the food requirements, but someone with an extra 50lbs of muscle can survive in a starvation situation longer than a smaller person because their body has more to eat of itself. And, who cares about power to weight ratios? Only the smaller guys who want to say "well, I lift more according to bodyweight." Well, the elephant can still kick the shit out of the mouse, despite the fact that the mouse can lift more according to the bodyweight formula. (Actually, I don't know about the whole mouse thing, but I didn't want to completely rip off the passage in Power Mag.)

Who ever said that powerlifting helps with functional strength? It measures three lifts that are all 1) assisted with suits, wraps and shirts 2) performed in a very technical manner which enables the lifter to lift more. I don't know. I've never been in a situation where a 500lb bench would help me any. Especially since, even if I was pinned under a car, I most probably couldn't get into proper benching position.

Anyone ever get sick of small powerlifters thinking that size doesn't matter? Let's just face it. We (bodybuilders) think you look like shit and you(powerlifters) think we're weak. Guess we're just always going to disagree.

 

[Blood&Iron]

You are correct. It was in the Crito. However, I didn't get it from there. That's one of the biggest problems I have with being a philosophy student. I honestly couldn't give a single fuck as to what someone else has said. I'm only interested in my own personal philosophies. Unfortunately, due to being born several thousand years too late, many others have come before me and have said what I would say. Damn my poor choice of birth! So, my original point was simply that I wasn't quoting Plato. He did, indeed, say that, but I wasn't using his logic.

That's why I never studied philosophy formally. It always pisses me off when I see something in print that I've thought myself. My immediate thought is usually something like "See I'm smart. I thought the same thing as <insert philosopher's name here>" Then I move onto "Fucker. Now everyone's gonna think I ripped off your lame ass." Oh, well.

 

[Grizzly]

Coming to think of it, how many of the bodybuilders here are actually big?? Very few seem to be over 250. As far as powerlifting and functional strength. I work my way through university on a construction site, I think its fair to say that the deads and squats stand me in good stead. Powerlifters do use equipment at meets.....sure. But they train without it for much of the time. They use equipment in competition because the rules allow it and it means they lift more.....but it isnt a lot more. In the deadlift, equipment doesnt help either......

Incidentally, I didnt focus on powerlifters as examples of functional strength.....strongman competitors would be a good example of functional strength (I just wish I had the time, balls and resources to train that way).....many track and field athletes are stupid strong at light weights.

So we agree to disagree I guess . Sorry about the kinda disjointed ramblings above. That macho bullshit from a little skinny guy (who posts like he is huge) just got on my nerves a bit!!

That's true. Most of the bodybuilders here aren't that big, but we're all trying. I'm 270 now. It's not like I'm Yates 270 or anything, but I will be.

Functional strength does play a role in everything. I delivered dry-wall over the summer and I was definitely the best at pulling the boards because of my weight training background. But, for the most part, you can get functional strength from any resistance training. Really, one is not going to need an 800lb deadlift for anything in real life. Of course, why wouldn't someone want a huge dead?

I still think the equipment really helps. From what I understand, a double ply bench shirt will give you 50lbs on the bench. Not a bad increase in 3 minutes. Knee wraps will give a good 30 and the squat suit another 50ish. Once again, an 80lb gain in a matter of minutes. If I could gain like that without the equipment I'd be one happy motherfucker!

I definitely agree that the strongmen are the best examples of functional strength. Of course, Svend Karlsen is a card carrying IFBB professional bodybuilder.

Yeah, we have to agree to disagree, but not nearly as much as I made it out to seem. I couldn't help myself. I've just been in one argumentative mood. I'll argue with anyone about anything. It just may be the tren I'm on.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Originally posted by Grizzly:

That's true. Most of the bodybuilders here aren't that big, but we're all trying. I'm 270 now. It's not like I'm Yates 270 or anything, but I will be.

Well if thats your goal.....good luck in achieving it.

Functional strength does play a role in everything. I delivered dry-wall over the summer and I was definitely the best at pulling the boards because of my weight training background. But, for the most part, you can get functional strength from any resistance training. Really, one is not going to need an 800lb deadlift for anything in real life. Of course, why wouldn't someone want a huge dead?

Why do people climb mountains? Or jump out of aeroplanes? Or run marathons? I think the psychobabble for it is "intrinsic" motivation". It makes you feel good when you do something that few can achieve, or that you couldnt do before. I might ask why anybody wants 20 inch arms.....I dont get that one, but to each his own.

I still think the equipment really helps. From what I understand, a double ply bench shirt will give you 50lbs on the bench. Not a bad increase in 3 minutes. Knee wraps will give a good 30 and the squat suit another 50ish. Once again, an 80lb gain in a matter of minutes. If I could gain like that without the equipment I'd be one happy motherfucker!

A person skilled in using equipment might match those numbers.......but some people get hardly anythnig from equipment. The problem with equipment is that you have to learn to use it properly.....which isnt easy. I could be wrong, but I believe the current record holder for the largest total, Garry Franks, is one of these people. For a big lifter, the numbers you quoted might amount to 10% extra on a lift.......so if the squat 800 with, they are still doing 725ish without equipment. I'd be happy with that . Many people think equipment does virtually everything for you.....but your numbers are more realistic.

I definitely agree that the strongmen are the best examples of functional strength. Of course, Svend Karlsen is a card carrying IFBB professional bodybuilder.

lol......and how many of them are ex-powerlifters??

Yeah, we have to agree to disagree, but not nearly as much as I made it out to seem. I couldn't help myself. I've just been in one argumentative mood. I'll argue with anyone about anything. It just may be the tren I'm on.

You and me both . It livens the place up a bit.....so long as it doesnt turn into a flame war. Merry Xmas to you and yours......I prob already said that but I'm trying to get into the festive spirit!!

 

[mattcanning99]

u think u will longer when u are a small chicken?
only the biggest survive!

LOL!!

only the strongest?

is that what you meant?