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HIT training, the Mike Mentzer way (Heavy duty)


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about HIT training, the Mike Mentzer way (Heavy duty) within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Anobody here follows this form of training? Im thinking of starting it the 1st of january, and if anybody else wanna join in it would be great. I have some questions that need to be answered before i start it, so anybody with an interest for this kind of training give me a shout.

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  1. #11
    Muscle Pimp MrMuscle's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CoolColJ
    4-10 days, your shrinking and getting weaker in that time!

    2 steps forward, one step back
    excuse me? so you claim that training a bodypart once a week isnt enough? Weird, ive been doing this for the last 6 years, and ive put on 60 pounds or so.

  2. #12
    Mad Scientist coolcolj's Avatar
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    yeah but you may have put on 80lbs instead

    why 1 week? Such an arbitary collection of days

  3. #13
    Muscle Pimp MrMuscle's Avatar
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    mainly because i enjoy doing a four split, divided over 4 days, with three rest days.

    obviously you belive more is better, thats all fine and dandy.

  4. #14
    Mad Scientist coolcolj's Avatar
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    Well you can either have say 5x5 once a week

    or 1x5, 5 days a week.

    Same amount of volume and work in a week, but will make less inroads into CNS recovery. At least the body will treat it as a regular occurance rather than this damaging thing that occurs every so often that knocks the stuffing out of it.

    I don't know about size, but you will get stronger faster doing the latter, without overly stressing your body

  5. #15
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    I like training each body part twice a week as well.

  6. #16
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    go to my yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeavyDuty
    i was personally trained by mentzer and getting this group up for hit trainers. Modification is the key to mentzer hit.
    its very simple, if you can say lets say incline bench 225 for 6, the next workout you have to do 225 for 7 or 230. exact amount of warmup sets and one set to failure.

  7. #17
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    Originally posted by CoolColJ
    The problems with all these guys is that they use judgement and theory to formulate their training "systems". There is no science or research involved
    In fairness, all of science is theories. (I know what you mean, though...you're speaking of theory as its commonly understood connotation.)

    Unfortunately, Mike's "theory" was full of problems:

    1--He used a priori reasoning. That is, Mike decided less frequent training, training to failure, etc. was all "best" before he had observed that this was irrefutably so.

    Put another way, Mike used circular reasoning; i.e., "Less frequent training works best because it works best."

    That's obviously a big no-no.

    2--Mike was selective in how he interpreted his data, basically only looking for information which supported his circular logic. For instance, he used to ask me how my strength gains and bodyweight were coming along.

    I'd get better at certain exercises, even when practiced very infrequently...my best ass-to-ankles squatting was done on such a routine in fact (a so-so 380x2 w/out a belt). And yes, I definitely gained bodyweight.

    The trouble was, more bodyweight =/ (does not equal) bodybuilding progress. I was adding FAT, too, which is not testament to the efficacy of a training program. Such a distinction is vital when collecting observations to form a theory.

    Same said for strength gains. They were largely exercise-specific, purely the result of neural adaptations (with a few exceptions but we won't get bogged down with that).

    That brings me to

    3--Flawed premises. For instance, Mike reasoned that a stronger muscle =/ a bigger one. However, the two are somewhat related but not directly correlated.

    God Bless him, but Mike fell on lots of non sequiturs to try and piece the puzzle together.

    Finally, we have

    4--Imprecise definitions. You can't get anywhere in science or logic without very explicit definitions of the relevant terms.

    Mike's notion of "intensity," for instance, depended entirely upon momentary effort, seemingly a safe bet but actually far from it. Anyone who's gone to the gym royally pissed and ready to tear shit up, is jacked up on ECA, or has someone spotting them when attempting a scary-ass, big weight knows their output could vary by as much as several reps...those reps are the difference between overload and not!

    Anyway...

    There could be more, but those are the main problems off the top of my head; the point is, even with one of the above problems, a theory is in fact nothing of the sort.

    All that said, I was friends with Mike, and I miss the guy. He'd had some troubles but when he was "himself," he was in fact quite intelligent, and always charming. Some circles, certainly none here, give him undue flak over his eccentricities (classic ad hominem: bash the man, not his ideas). That's especially foul, now that the man's dead. Among others, TC Luoma cemented himself as a real asshole in my mind for the way he talked about Mike after his death. (We'll overlook the fact that his "Atomic Dog" columns are wholly pointless, and certainly overlook the fact that he's got the body of a ten year-old girl. We wouldn't want to make personal attacks against someone we think deserving, after all...right? Not while they're alive, anyway.)

    I should also say Mike's 3 days-per week routines worked well for me. I gained like gangbusters when I trained each bodypart once a week, and I certainly think it's a much better bodybuilding routine than the type most schmoes use. But is it ideal?

    No. It'll work, but for low-volume stuff DC training takes it to the next level.

    Mr. Muscle, I advise that you avoid Mike's consolidated workouts. 4-10 days rest between sessions is simply unnecessary, and definitely detrimental in the long run. I could go into some specifics to that end, things I've experienced first-hand, but I'm too long for this stage tonight , and I think there are arguments in the training stickies that already cover what I might say.

  8. #18
    Muscle Pimp MrMuscle's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hitwarrior
    go to my yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeavyDuty
    i was personally trained by mentzer and getting this group up for hit trainers. Modification is the key to mentzer hit.
    its very simple, if you can say lets say incline bench 225 for 6, the next workout you have to do 225 for 7 or 230. exact amount of warmup sets and one set to failure.
    i tried getting to your group, but it said "There is no group called HeavyDuty"

  9. #19
    Muscle Pimp MrMuscle's Avatar
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    Goldukat: Extremely informative post. Thank you very much. I cant say I havent started to have doubts about doing Heavy Duty. But I still feel like i could benefite from decreasing my training workload for a period of time. If you, or anybody else, have any suggestions on how to adapt the Heavy Duty system to a more usefull program, please let me know. Maybe go more over to HIT?

  10. #20
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    Originally posted by MrMuscle
    Goldukat: Extremely informative post. Thank you very much. I cant say I havent started to have doubts about doing Heavy Duty. But I still feel like i could benefite from decreasing my training workload for a period of time. If you, or anybody else, have any suggestions on how to adapt the Heavy Duty system to a more usefull program, please let me know. Maybe go more over to HIT?
    You're very welcome brolie

    I do have some thoughts on how you can apply the best parts of Heavy Duty to a productive training program: try Doggcrapping!

    The threads which discuss this routine are extremely long, so, be warned! You can find the original (I think) at the Animalkits forum:

    http://www.animalkits.be/phpBB/viewt...&forum=11&1460

    ...and you can find quite a long thread about DCing here at EF, too:

    http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum...hreadid=206105

    There are other good low volume programs out there, to be sure, but DC training combines a number of things that makes it my favorite. When I approached it I was pretty skeptical myself--I was very afraid I'd wind up overtrained in a matter of a couple weeks--but the experience has been nothing but positive.

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