Comparision of bicep vs. hamstring training...

[AAP]

Ok.... now with hamstrings we really have two types of exercises (there are a couple of others that hit the hamstrings indirectly) ... one being curling movements - whether standing, seated, laying, etc.. - and the stiff legged dead lift movement which is basically a heavy stretching movement. Think about it... your hamstrings do not contract during the SLDL.

So why do we not have a stiff legged dead lift variation for bicep training? All bicep training relys upon are curling movements... where is the heavy stretched movement for biceps? I mean, there is no denying you get growth for hams from SLDL.

Just a thought....

 

[endpoint]

the hamstring is responsible for knee flexion and hip extension.

and the "biceps" are for elbow flexion, and some fore arm Supination.

some minor shoulder felxion is possible......but doesnt seem to make much of a difference.

 

[jeremys]

deadlifts and rows

 

[guldukat]

Ok.... now with hamstrings we really have two types of exercises (there are a couple of others that hit the hamstrings indirectly) ... one being curling movements - whether standing, seated, laying, etc.. - and the stiff legged dead lift movement which is basically a heavy stretching movement. Think about it... your hamstrings do not contract during the SLDL.

Err...wha, bro?

If your hamstrings didn't actually contract in the SLDL, you couldn't do the movement at all

So why do we not have a stiff legged dead lift variation for bicep training? All bicep training relys upon are curling movements... where is the heavy stretched movement for biceps? I mean, there is no denying you get growth for hams from SLDL.

Just a thought....

That is an interesting metaphor--hamstrings and biceps.

I would perhaps look at it from the standpoint of isolation v. compound, instead.

All of the hamstring movements you described, with the exception of SLDL, are isolation exercises. They really only involve movement around a single joint (the knees, and to a very small extent the hips). SLDL are a compound exercise, since they involve the grip, the traps, the erectors, hips, glutes, hamstrings, and even calves to some degree.

All biceps curls are, similarly, isolation movements. So why not look to a compound biceps movement that allows you to move a lot more weight through a long ROM--an exercise that also might allow your killer stretch position?

 

[AAP]

My hamstrings stretch during SLDL, but not contract like they do during a curl.

 

[Baoh]

My hamstrings stretch during SLDL, but not contract like they do during a curl.

Well, of course not. They are contracting from hip extension in an SLDL, while a Leg Curls uses flexion of the lower leg. However, there IS a contraction. It is somewhat static, but the furthest end of the eccentric is emphasized. This stretch, combined with the potential for greater loads, is what makes SLDLs so effective for hamstring development.

If your hammies didn't contract in an SLDL, you couldn't move the weight. Posterior chain, and the hams are a link.

I figure that you already know this, but I'm just clarifying.

I've though about this topic years earlier, and the conclusion I came to is that the emphasis is just not as great with arm work on brachial biceps as compared leg work with femoral biceps. You could try Incline or Lying Curls, but I found them not having as much of a relative impact on the arms as an SLDL has upon the legs. Basically, you could also do a stretch of the Lying Curls with movement only at the shoulder joint to more closely approximate the SLDL-type movement (but for arms), but I tried it and did not find it to be particularly affected. I suspect this is simply due to the differences in emphasis between arms and legs. While they are analogous, they simply have become too different through evolution.

I hope this helps.



*EDIT*- I need to replace my piece of shit keyboard, but I'm much too lazy.

 

[IronLion]

In a heavy dead lift your biceps work the same way as your hamstrings in a sldl or rdl

 

[The Shadow]

you do...an incline curls is a stretch pos for bis.

 

[Baoh]

In a heavy dead lift your biceps work the same way as your hamstrings in a sldl or rdl

No. It would have to experience a maximized ROM at the shoulder joint to have the same effect, and that doesn't happen during a DL (for the brachial biceps).

 

[IronLion]

I see your point, you are right, but in any pulling movement (especially the dl) your bicep is resisting a tensile overload exactly like the force your hamstring resists in the eccentric phase of the rdl