CCJ and OTHERS... OL Lifts help...

[b fold the truth]

I've been working with this one thrower who is really talented...but she has never tapped into her potential both in the gym as well as in her throwing. She has never had anyone push her either.

We have been working on her power cleans for a while. She needs to do 150 to get her name and picture on the wall...and she weighs less than that now.

Instead of doing speed deads we have been doing cleans 2x per week with a lighter weight then going slightly heavier...etc...

Here are some clips...most of them are her using 95 pounds and trying different forms, dropping, elbow/hand position, speeds, etc...

1

2

3, going heavier, 115 I think

4, same weight I think

125 I think...

missing 130 i think

missing it again

going lighter again, trying to find form

working on making the first pull SLOWER

same thing, with more explosiveness

last one

Any and ALL help is appreciated. We have a long way to go...but we are NOT giving up.

B True

 

[coolcolj]

Nothing more sexy than a female doing olys
Pretty deep catch for a powerclean - some are in "No-Man's land" sorta in between a quarter squat power clean catch and a squatclean.

Well the only ones that looked ok to me were clips 40 and 41, where she pulled slower off the floor.

All the other ones, she yanked the bar far too quickly off the floor, and then she couldn't keep up the bar speed going in the 2nd pull. But starting position is great.

Much better for now to pull real slow off the floor and then very slowly speed up, once she past the knee she should just yank that bar with all her might, get high on the toes, fully pop the hips forward, shrug right up and the head should be extended back and up.

I noticed that she doesn't do a double knee rebend. She is losing out on a lot of power by not doing this. Reason?
She's not keeping the bar close to her body all the way up. From knee level and up the hips don't hug the bar, she needs to scoop the hips forward - ie rebending the knees foward and under the bar. When the bar is mid thigh, I can see a bit of air between the bar and her thighs.
Also at this point her shoulders are behind the bar - they must stay in front or above the bar as long as possible, at least till the bar reaches the hip crease.

If she consciously try to make the bar follow the contours of her body all the way up this will happen automaticly.
Doing them from hang will help this as well I think.

As it is now, it looks more like a speed deadlift than a powerclean.

I will post a pic sequence showing you what I mean.

 

[coolcolj]

Ok take a look at this pic to get a better idea on what I'm talking about

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj/Photos/CCJ_PowerCleanComapro.jpg

The yellow lines show the angle of my leg. After the first pull, my legs straighten up, to a body positon like an RDL, shins vertical hips back. Then notice as the bar continues, my knees rebend under the bar. The knees moves forward because I am pushing my hips trying to keep the bar close to the body. This action causes a stretch reflex/plyometric action and so I can generate more power and at the same time put my body in a better position to generate force in the final explosion phase.
Ie almost like a jumping posture.

This is also called a hip scoop - it's something that happens automaticly without me thinking about it, just by trying to keep the bar close and popping the hips forward.

Also notice that I keep my shoulder over the bar or slightly in front until the very last moment? This is better mechanical position for leverage etc. By the thrid frame, her shoulders are behind the bar like in a deadlift and you can't exert as much force
on the bar from this position for the final explosion.
No one can jump high in the posture she's in.
She also gets up on her toes too early. Stay on the heels as long as you can.
Then she nevers fully extends her hips and body, she should be like bow - see my final frame.

You can watch the video the sequence was taken from here - it's not my best form, as this was taken a while back, but it's the most recent one I have taken from the side. Notice I jump forward -- bad habit, don't copy this

Right click and save
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/blitzforce/Movies/CCJ_PowerClean185_14June03.mpg

 

[OfWolfandMan]

This is alot like what CCJ posted,but just another example that might help.I looked at this,and watched the Kolecki animated clean over and over and over,to try to figure out everything that was going on.Like ccj said,the knee bend during the second pull helps out alot,just takes some practice.Ive been doing cleans from a few inches below my knees in the rack,so that I can focus more on getting the second pull down.It has been helping

http://www.olympiclifting.citymax.com/page/page/139230.htm

 

[edgecrusher]

Her second pull is non existent as ccj mentioned. She is not moveing to the bar, she is trying to make the bar come to her. She looks as theoug she is not getting much push from her feet as well, she should be exploding up onto her toes. After 2 misses, the movement should be stopped. Her CNS will not respond properly, and will begin to program bad form. Who is teaching her this movement?

 

[b fold the truth]

Thanks a TON guys...so very much. CCJ: The pics, vids, and descriptions give us A LOT to work on. I am sending all of it to her now so that we can work on it more on Tuesday. Overwhelmed by all of this...lol.

OfWolfAndMan: Thanks for the pic too...we will look alot at that one also.

Edgecrusher: Did you watch the last 2 clips where we worked on making the first pull SLOWER? I think that CCJ mentioned that they looked better.

On a side note...NOBODY has been teaching ANYONE at MSU how to do a power clean. Emily's power clean is the best that I've seen at MSU and it has become A LOT better since I have been working with her, believe it or not.

The trainers and the coaches just tell them to power clean, they show them ONCE (and they can't do it themselves) and then they just leave. Most everyone else takes a very close grip on the bar (pointer finger touching the smooth), they use straps, and they do a jumping reverse curl with the weight. It looks horrible...I'll see if I can get some clips of them doing them next week.

Edgecrusher...I'm not sure if the last comment was negative or not. I am the one teaching her now and I have both the brains and the balls to know that I don't know how to do the OL lifts very well. I am also the ONLY coach who uses a video camera and isn't afraid to ask others how we can improve. Every other coach believes that they already know EVERYTHING that there is to know and they refuse to ask for help from anyone. Please, give me a little credit.

B True

 

[coolcolj]

I would go back to basics

Stiff armed jump shrugs with just the bar,
then clean deadlifts and hang cleans from mid thigh, above knee etc to simplify the movement and then join them together to get the full power clean. Also I think power cleans from the hang are more applicable for athletes.
Doing the cleans from blocks at just below the knee will help as well to skip the first pull. Still pulling slightly controlled and then bam

making sure the bar is close to the body at all times.
Drilling with the empty bar is a good diea to work on speed and fluidity etc.

front squats will help as well.

 

[b fold the truth]

I would go back to basics

Stiff armed jump shrugs with just the bar,
then clean deadlifts and hang cleans from mid thigh, above knee etc to simplify the movement and then join them together to get the full power clean. Also I think power cleans from the hang are more applicable for athletes.
Doing the cleans from blocks at just below the knee will help as well to skip the first pull. Still pulling slightly controlled and then bam

making sure the bar is close to the body at all times.
Drilling with the empty bar is a good diea to work on speed and fluidity etc.

front squats will help as well.

Thanks...we will try to find a spot to put some of these into her routine. We have noticed many problems on our own. When she pulls explosively on the 2nd pull...she jumps back about 3". It is hard for her to get the bar to rack at the right spot (always low on her), she can't keep an arch when she catches it, and she can't get her elbows up. I am really thinking that what you said in the first post will help to solve all of these. The bar is just too far from her body and she is not shooting her hips fwd...

Thanks so much man...

B True

 

[edgecrusher]

Edgecrusher: Did you watch the last 2 clips where we worked on making the first pull SLOWER? I think that CCJ mentioned that they looked better.

They looked somewhat better, but her hip extension is still lacking tremenodusly.

On a side note...NOBODY has been teaching ANYONE at MSU how to do a power clean. Emily's power clean is the best that I've seen at MSU and it has become A LOT better since I have been working with her, believe it or not.

The trainers and the coaches just tell them to power clean, they show them ONCE (and they can't do it themselves) and then they just leave. Most everyone else takes a very close grip on the bar (pointer finger touching the smooth), they use straps, and they do a jumping reverse curl with the weight. It looks horrible...I'll see if I can get some clips of them doing them next week.

Edgecrusher...I'm not sure if the last comment was negative or not. I am the one teaching her now and I have both the brains and the balls to know that I don't know how to do the OL lifts very well. I am also the ONLY coach who uses a video camera and isn't afraid to ask others how we can improve. Every other coach believes that they already know EVERYTHING that there is to know and they refuse to ask for help from anyone. Please, give me a little credit.

B True [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmm, this interesting someone seems rather defensive today!!! Had I have known that a question would cause such a response I probaly would not have posted it. I simply asked the question to attempt to find out what type of S&C program was being run. There are different schools of thought, and different types of coaches.

But, since we are on the topic, how did you get this position as a strength coach? Did you study some type fo exercise physiology at school?

 

[b fold the truth]

Originally posted by edgecrusher
Hmmm, this interesting someone seems rather defensive today!!! Had I have known that a question would cause such a response I probaly would not have posted it. I simply asked the question to attempt to find out what type of S&C program was being run. There are different schools of thought, and different types of coaches.

Wouldn't say I was defensive...and I simply asked if that was a negative comment that you were directing towards 'whoever' was teaching them.

But, since we are on the topic, how did you get this position as a strength coach? Did you study some type fo exercise physiology at school? [/B]

I am not a strength coach. I work in the weight room and I don't have to do anything while I am there. I saw a group of people who needed help and that worked very hard in the gym but had no direction. I am actually their Volunteer Assistant Coach...as they do not have anyone in charge of them to make sure that they are throwing, lifting, going to class...nada.

I didn't take a single exercise physiology class at school. The other trainers have Masters in Exercise Science...and they don't know didly squat about lifting. They are the ones teaching the athlets how to do all the lifts...and they are getting injured while doing so.

Really not sure that I like your attitude in this thread at all...or maybe I just took your comments TOTALLY the wrong way.

B True