Can you attain your STEROID size WITHOUT taking steroids?

[SSAlexSS]

This can get ugly, hopefuly not. Lets have a good discussion.

Can you attain your maximum level of phisque NATURALLY without using drugs? I mean that if your true potential genetic limit is around 240 pounds - can yoiu get there
naturally and without juice? I know, I know, all pros juice and stuff , but they arent the most hard working and most educated fellows out there.

You might say that, "no. You have to to steroids, people cant get to 240+ pounds of shreded muscle naturally." . Howeever there are some things that need to be thought over. It seems that it IS possible to look like your on steroids with proper training, and proper time (much longer than with juice)...

Here are some points
1) Steroids dont modify you genes. You just reach your own potential size faster. If you could modify your genes with steroids then Arnie would have bigger legs and tom platz would have bigger arms.


2) Steroids do give you more hormones that build muscle. Howeever so does the training and proper eating! Sure you dont get that much through natural means, but still you do gain additional amounts of hormones through hard and heavy barbell work
like squats and deadlifts. Sure you get less amounts that way, but in time it will catch up. Yes it may take you longer to build muscle naturally, but it still IS theoreticaly possible to get there. Plus hormonal levels are not the most important in building muscle, or so it seems.

3) The reason why steroid users can get such amount of muscle is also because of better recuperative powers. A steroid user can recover faster and thus for him the time between workouts is shorter. A steroid user can train a bodypart 3 times per week. A smart and advanced natural trainee might train his bodypart only once 2 weeks. That means that steroid user would get 3x4 = 12 days of training that bodypart in a month while a natural trainee might get only 2. Hence why steroid users get more progress faster.


4) Steroids give you a mental edge. Actually any performance enhancing drug would certainly give you some kind of boost in performance even if it is just a sugar pill. Yoiur mental attitude has just changed, thats all. You can still do that while being natural, watch Dorian Yates blood and guts amnd try to replicate his intensity in the gym! That should work!

5) Steroids blunt your stress hormones. That means that you can train longer and recuperate faster. With steroids you can make more mistakes and still progress, while being natural doesnt give you such an opportunity.

Again it seems that you can still achieve your full size ny neing natural. All it is is that it just will take longer and more know-how. Right? Remember that steroids dont modify your genes in ANY way, or your muscles. All they do is create a byproduct of training in larger doses so progress can be quicker.

Do I mean to say that Ronnie and Markus could have reached their size NATURALLY?
Yes! It would take them much longer but it would seem to be possible. Sure they would be good 5 years older than, but hey, they could probably go on for longer!


Again lets see a typ[ical chart of someones progress in MUSCLE weight per year. The progress is average here not super big or anything.

First year about 20 muscle pounds
second 10
third 10
fourth 10
fifth 5
sixth 4
seventh and later 1-4 muscle pounds per year.


Again a normal induvidual weighting like 165 poudsn be at least ripped at 225 pounds in 7 years. A MR OLYMPIA COMPETITOR! Actually not even every juiced Mr O competitor weigths that much. Shawin weighted at 211 pounds, lee priest i think at 215 pounds.

With weight training many people can add 50-75 or more pounds of muscle. That means that people who arent 98 pound weaklings can often turn into giants, naturally!

Dorain yates started real training at 180. It means that naturally he could have beena atleast 230-255 pounds. Sure he wouldnt be Mr O that fast, but he would have been healthier and probably able to compete for much longer.



Please reply!

btwm keepo the replies goood please. This could stir up a mess. I dont want that!

 

[Welsh power house]

Um, i dont know what to say about this. Its good that you are saying that 'roids are not the only way to go, but you are wrong if you think that you can obtain the same physique if you train are natural.

Steroids are used by many to brake through genetic barriers and so, yes they do have the potential to make you alot bigger than you could ever be if you train naturally.

Look at hhh from the wwf. He came in a skinny, pasty weed. A few years later and a shit load of jabs and pills along with sleeping in a sunbed the guy is a different man all together!

Dont get me wrong, he works his ass off in the gym, eats the right way ect. But the fact is, with the lifestyle he leads(travelling, no time to eat, taking shit loads of bumps, injuries....) it is impossible to look as he does no matter your genetic make up.

It also a well known fact that wrestlers, football players, rugby players and other sports people that need strength, size and power use steroids just to maintain weight and strength during the season and along with the other training they have to do.

I dont want to come across as a cocky bastard but im sorry, steroids (along with good food and weights) make you far bigger and stronger than you could ever be without them.

On another note, i hate steroids and all drugs. Anyone can stick a needle in their ass, only a real man can keep clean and have a body to show for it.

 

[buffal2001]

Well said WPH, its a fact that roids do help maintain mass during on seasons for many sports people and it surely cant be done without them...........i do believe the enormous potential of the human body and the drive that some people have but it is naive to think that people can achieve such results as HHH has without roids and doing what he does on the road.

lol.........pasty weed........i remember those days in wrestling!!!!!!

 

[SSAlexSS]

Um, i dont know what to say about this. Its good that you are saying that 'roids are not the only way to go, but you are wrong if you think that you can obtain the same physique if you train are natural.

Steroids are used by many to brake through genetic barriers and so, yes they do have the potential to make you alot bigger than you could ever be if you train naturally.

Look at hhh from the wwf. He came in a skinny, pasty weed. A few years later and a shit load of jabs and pills along with sleeping in a sunbed the guy is a different man all together!

Dont get me wrong, he works his ass off in the gym, eats the right way ect. But the fact is, with the lifestyle he leads(travelling, no time to eat, taking shit loads of bumps, injuries....) it is impossible to look as he does no matter your genetic make up.

It also a well known fact that wrestlers, football players, rugby players and other sports people that need strength, size and power use steroids just to maintain weight and strength during the season and along with the other training they have to do.

I dont want to come across as a cocky bastard but im sorry, steroids (along with good food and weights) make you far bigger and stronger than you could ever be without them.

On another note, i hate steroids and all drugs. Anyone can stick a needle in their ass, only a real man can keep clean and have a body to show for it.

Steroids cant break thrpough genetic barriers! If they could, arnold would have bigger legs! Look at his early photos, he had great genese for upper body (chest and arms) but his legs were always kinda small. Even after lots of roids, his arms and chest were huge , but his legs sub par.

To change your genetics you need to change almost EVERY CELL in your body. By injecting juice into your muscles you are not changing genes. The only way to change your genes is to send a self replicating virus to target specific DNA strands in ALL needed cells (about billions of them). By changing few celss in your body nothing happens. Your cells change, CONSTANTLY! newer build and older die out. To chnage your egentics you would need to change the central mechanism or continually send a virus into your body. Steroids dont do that. Furthermore if sterids could modify your genes than ANYONE could have been humongous. Obviously it doesnt happen. Joe Blow at 98 pounds most likely will NEVER be Dorian Yates at 257 pounds... Why? Because his genetics are not that great, so NO amount of juice would be able to help him!

About sport people, wrestlers and such. Yes they do need steroids to become big ans strong. But we are talking about BODYBUILDING where the results would come in years not in mongths! We have time, sport or actors dont have time.

 

[Daeo]

Steroids cant break thrpough genetic barriers! If they could, arnold would have bigger legs! Look at his early photos, he had great genese for upper body (chest and arms) but his legs were always kinda small. Even after lots of roids, his arms and chest were huge , but his legs sub par.

I disagree. Just look at Dorian Yates back back when he competed against Lee Haney. It wasn't the greatest. He then turned it into one of the most impressive backs in history...

 

[SSAlexSS]

I disagree. Just look at Dorian Yates back back when he competed against Lee Haney. It wasn't the greatest. He then turned it into one of the most impressive backs in history...

He wasnt at his bigggest back then!
He gained quite a bit the following year, all in his back I guess.

That is what "refinement" means. Steroids allow you to make sudden progress. His back was ALWAYS good, it just wanst so massive. But its potential was there, he just plaed his best to maximize it!

 

[life is good]

alex, are you kidding.
Arnold would have bigger legs?
He wasnt at his biggest back then?

dood come on. He wasnt at his biggest because he hadnt taken the juice to get there. Arnold WOULD NOT HAVE the size he had on his legs without the juice.

Do you understand that if a juiced to the gills pro stopped taking juice but kept training and eating just as hard and doing everything perfectly THEY WOULD NOT EVEN MAINTAIN THEIR CURRENT SIZE let alone grow. So what does that tell you. THEY ARE CURRENTLY PAST WHAT THERE BODY WOULD AND COULD NATURALLY BE. They are holding onto more muscle than they could naturally. I am not downplaying these or anyother athletes accomplishments who use drugs. I am saying that you can get past your natural potential by using. NOT by changing you genetic makeup, chemically. But by turning you into a freakin anabolic wharehouse.
Not trying to be a dick, just trying to get my point accross.

 

[dude]

I'm not sure if any of you have ever read the Adonis Complex, but the author is very involved with determining the genetic limit of muscle mass in relation to fat mass. I can't for the life of me remember his name but I have an old Musclemag in which he developed a formula for which you can determine if someone is on steroids or not just by knowing their bodyfat, height, and weight. He compared the results of pros now and pros before the development of steroids. He came to the conclusion that Steve Reeves was just about at the peak of what a genetically gifted bodybuilder could achieve. If someone wants to know more about the article and this author then I can dig up the information for you.

 

[SSAlexSS]

I'm not sure if any of you have ever read the Adonis Complex, but the author is very involved with determining the genetic limit of muscle mass in relation to fat mass. I can't for the life of me remember his name but I have an old Musclemag in which he developed a formula for which you can determine if someone is on steroids or not just by knowing their bodyfat, height, and weight. He compared the results of pros now and pros before the development of steroids. He came to the conclusion that Steve Reeves was just about at the peak of what a genetically gifted bodybuilder could achieve. If someone wants to know more about the article and this author then I can dig up the information for you.

Lets see that article!
Post it please!

thanx!

 

[OMEGA]

hate to break this too you but Reeves experimented with juice