Can We Discuss Reduntant Lifts? And wrongfully executed lifts?

[curling]

Could ya'll please answer some questions for me.

1. Do front lateral raises do anything more to the front delts than shoulders presses do? In otherwords if you shoulder press do you still need to do front lateral raises or are they redundant?

2. Some people I see doing lateral(front and side) raises all the way up. I have been told you should stop and shoulder height and that is what I do btw. But is there any more benefit if you go all the way up?

3. Behind the neck shoulder presses land lat pull downs behing the neck. I know it is dangerous for the rotator cup but I see so many people do it. Is there "ANY" added benefit from doing those exercises that way instead of in front of the head?

Thanks.

[NateDogg]

1. No, I would not bother doing them in the same workout anyway.

2. There is no benefit to the shoulder muscle that is gained by going all the way up. It is better to stop and squeeze at parallel to the floor.

3. I argue that there is no benefit to doing them behind the neck. Only bad things can happen when you try to make your body position itself in a way it's not mean to be positioned.

My $.02

NateDogg

[gymtime]

1. Shoulder presses are a more compound excercise than front raises. Presses hit front delt, trap, and tris, while front raises isolate the front delt more. I see no reason not to do them on the same day.

2. It's not so much a matter of benefit as it is a matter of what you want to accomplish. Once you go past parallel on lat raise, you incorporate the trap into the movement, moreso than the delt. So if you're looking at it strictly as a delt excercise, then there's no need to go above parallel.

3. Behind the neck excercises are no better or worse than fronts in terms of muscle-building. They simply target different areas. I, like most here, have read a lot of bad things about btn pulldowns. I don't do them for that reason and because I simply don't think they work. As for btn presses, I've done them and fronts for years and have never had a problem.

[DaCypher]

1. Like gymtime said, the press is a compound movement and the front raise is more of an isolation movement. Redundant? Somewhat. However, do you do flies and chest presses on the same day? Theres nothing wrong with hitting the same muscle from a different angle/exercise as long as you don't over do it.

2. gymtime said it nicely.

3. I don't mess with the rotator cuff. I don't think there is any significant difference between doing those exercises in front of head or behind (although I'm sure it does hit the muslces slightly differently). Its definetly not worth the risk of injuring your rotator cuff to do those exercises, in my opinion.

[curling]

Thanks for the answers. Appreciate it.

[Liberator]

how come you can handle more weight with behind the neck military presses if it puts your shoulders in a more unstable position?

behind the neck anything and heavy flies are a shoulder injury waiting to happen

[Blood&Iron]

Here's my take:

1)Front raises are worthless for 99% of trainees. The front delts are used heavily in every variation of the bench, the various overhead presses, and dips. They get more than enough work as a result. How many guys have you seen with huge medial or posterior delts, and crappy little anterior delts? Answer: none. Now, here's another question: How many guys have you seen with forward sloping shoulder with nothing in the middle or back? Plenty, I'm sure.

2)As gymtime said, past 90 degrees and you using mostly your traps. Since lateral raises are ostenisbly for your medial delts, stop at parallel.

3)Short answer: nope.

[GenetiKing]

Originally posted by Blood&Iron
Here's my take:

1)Front raises are worthless for 99% of trainees. The front delts are used heavily in every variation of the bench, the various overhead presses, and dips. They get more than enough work as a result. How many guys have you seen with huge medial or posterior delts, and crappy little anterior delts? Answer: none. Now, here's another question: How many guys have you seen with forward sloping shoulder with nothing in the middle or back? Plenty, I'm sure.

2)As gymtime said, past 90 degrees and you using mostly your traps. Since lateral raises are ostenisbly for your medial delts, stop at parallel.

3)Short answer: nope.

Agreed.

[b fold the truth]

Used to always do behind the neck presses. Also always warmed up a lot and did rotators 2x a week. I loved them, but now, for strongman...I primarily train with either an over head log or front presses. I have no spotter or a place to do behind the necks either.

B True