Bye-bye BBing BS: Journal of my 5x5 a la madcow2

[FreakMonster]

Looks like an awesome program. I'm looking to put some more muscle in my legs but cannot go heavy on squats because I have a bad back. I always seem to injure my back doing squats. Can this program be used with Hack Squats, and leg press, or any other leg excercises?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Squats are the backbone of the program (no pun intended). Check out the table of contents in the main thread and read 'casue just about every question I thought of was already covered there.

What's wrong with your back?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Week 5

FRIDAY

Squat 1x3: 365
Bench 3x3: 280
Row 3x3: 255
abs
curls

Comments:

-the Oly weightlifter who helped me on deads gave me some squatting advice and it was spot-on as well. I wore Doc Martens to squat in (looked pretty funny under my adidas warm-up pants) and made sure to shift the weight more on my heels and keep my chest out. I went DEEP and it felt great. Easy. My knees stayed in line w/ my toes much better today. They weren't terrible before but there was definite improvement

-I'd appreciate suggestions as to handling my program given my little "wavering" on wednesday. I was thinking running next week with an incremental increase in weight, ramp more aggressively week 7, then spread 8 and 9 over three weeks. Thoughts?

EDIT: MC2- I just read your response to jim ouini regarding doing the 2x deload and you said he should run 2x for two weeks then for the record weeks get back to 3x. Same suggestion for me?

 

[Guinness5.0]

bump for edit

 

[Madcow2]

EDIT: MC2- I just read your response to jim ouini regarding doing the 2x deload and you said he should run 2x for two weeks then for the record weeks get back to 3x. Same suggestion for me?

I didn't say that at all. I said forget all the record weeks and such other than the volume. When you complete loading on the volume you run the 2x phase for 2-3 weeks or as needed before stepping back into a volume phase:

Source: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4764723&postcount=381

Alternative Deload/Intensity:
This is really the one that most people should be doing. If you don't handle the other correctly you can blow your program but I didn't want to switch it and confuse people.

Week 5 and on switch to 3x3 and drop the Friday workout altogether. Week 5 weights are the same as the final week of volume. Over the next 2-3 weeks increase increase the weight workout to workout if you get all 9 reps. If you don't get all the reps, week the weight constant. You'll likely be able to move straight back into another volume phase after this is complete.

Monday:
Oly squats: 3x3
Bench: 3x3
Rows: 3x3

Wednesday (or move this workout to Thursday if you'd like)
Light Oly Squats (70% of monday): 3x3
Deadlifts: 3x3
Military Press: 3x3
Chins:3x3

The 2nd phase in the 3x per week has some great benefits, particularly in that it's really 2 full mesocycles rather than just a load/deload. This is why a lot of people notice really significant strength increases moving back into the volume again as all the heavy 3x3 and 1x3 work really pays its benefit (you get a lot of growth from it too as you transition into a more core hypertrophy volume and rep range). That said, it can be too much and has to be handled properly which is probably asking a bit much for many people. I think it's really effective though and if done right, I think a lot of the people who have used it have seen the benefits (although they generally have been beat to crap by the end).

 

[blut wump]

So, in this scenario, we have, over the life of the program:

4 weeks of volume doing 5x5 and 1x5
2-3 weeks of 2x per week deload, as the body sees fit, all at 3x3
3 weeks of 3x per week of intensity at 3x3 and 1x3 with time off as needed, probably causing it to stretch to longer.

Or have I completely misunderstood?

 

[Jim Ouini]

So, in this scenario, we have, over the life of the program:

4 weeks of volume doing 5x5 and 1x5
2-3 weeks of 2x per week deload, as the body sees fit, all at 3x3
3 weeks of 3x per week of intensity at 3x3 and 1x3 with time off as needed, probably causing it to stretch to longer.

Or have I completely misunderstood?

That's what I'd like to do, then, if this is the case. 2 weeks deload, 3 weeks intensity.

I've always been a bit confused about the deload/intensity anyway; I always thought the basic premise of DF was to build up fatigue, then 'deload' by cutting volume while keeping intensity high i.e, in the above scenario wouldn't the last 3 weeks be deloading due to the drastically reduced volume?

 

[Madcow2]

Plain Vanilla 2x:
4 weeks load
2-3 weeks as needed deload (2x per week)

Plan Vanilla 3x
4 weeks load
1 week deload (3x)
4 weeks intensity (3x)

 

[Guinness5.0]

Plain Vanilla 2x:
4 weeks load
2-3 weeks as needed deload (2x per week)

Plan Vanilla 3x
4 weeks load
1 week deload (3x)
4 weeks intensity (3x)

OK I more-or-less get it now. At least the difference in the two versions. Now to decide which one...

Also, if one was to go with plain vanilla 3x, week 6 would still serve as a deloading week, right? You're still ramping week to week, so you've still got to be a bit conservative and therefore the workouts won't be as taxing. Am I on the right track here? I'm sorry to make you spell everything out but my head is spinning

 

[blut wump]

That's what I'd like to do, then, if this is the case. 2 weeks deload, 3 weeks intensity.

I've always been a bit confused about the deload/intensity anyway; I always thought the basic premise of DF was to build up fatigue, then 'deload' by cutting volume while keeping intensity high i.e, in the above scenario wouldn't the last 3 weeks be deloading due to the drastically reduced volume?

That's what dual-factor is about: managing fitness and fatigue and then deloading.

Periodization is the part of having volume phases and intensity phases. As such you can run a dual-factor program which is all volume and deloading or all intensity and deloading. The latter would wear out your joints if kept up for long repeatedly but would still be valid dual-factor. The 5x5 in full 3x per week mode is a dual-factor periodized program.

You could even think of the whole program using the 3x per week intensity phase as two dual-factor phases stuck together: one volume and the other intensity.

At least, this is my understanding.