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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

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  1. #81
    Da Pope blut wump's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Week 8 just keeps getting better. I found week 7 actually fairly hard and was expecting to struggle a lot this week.

    I did my Monday PRs fairly comfortably but was not looking forward to today's workout. Last week I'd barely managed my deadlifts and had even dropped the bar on my last rep and came away with a hurting back which had compromised my Friday barbell rows.

    Today I added the requisite 5Kg (11 pounds) and just went for it. Nailed it with no problems and felt I could have done more. It reminded me of one of Curgeo's posts where he wrote about a changed attitude to weights. They're not a challenge, as such, either you lift it or you don't. It's the straining that counts. I reckon it's better when you do make the lift, though, and not just for the fuller rom.

  2. #82
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Mandinka2
    Madcow2 - I think the program is excellent and will be starting in 4 weeks but one thing - in regard to 90 degree back pulls - would heavy cable rows (possibly with wide bar) not be a superior sub ?
    These are just barbell rows. Close to or at 90 degrees is simply the right way to do them. There's a link on the first page that goes into a detailed thread on exactly why and provides 2 supperior variations. The best one being towards the bottom on page 1. Here's the link: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=366601

    As far as substituting a cable variation - this would be the polar opposite of supperior. It would slash the effectiveness to the point where you'd just be better off doing something entirely different. Properly performed barbell rows are multiple mangitudes better than a cable or machine variation. The vast majority of machines are simply garbage designed to take up space and make gym members think they are getting something for their money. Good for rehab - bad for a serious trainee.

  3. #83
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Madcow2
    These are just barbell rows. Close to or at 90 degrees is simply the right way to do them. There's a link on the first page that goes into a detailed thread on exactly why and provides 2 supperior variations. The best one being towards the bottom on page 1. Here's the link: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=366601

    As far as substituting a cable variation - this would be the polar opposite of supperior. It would slash the effectiveness to the point where you'd just be better off doing something entirely different. Properly performed barbell rows are multiple mangitudes better than a cable or machine variation. The vast majority of machines are simply garbage designed to take up space and make gym members think they are getting something for their money. Good for rehab - bad for a serious trainee.
    if I could reach out and hug a post
    I think it would be this one

  4. #84
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Madcow2
    It's like asking how one can use this workout using only a Bowflex. Squattiing is very fundemental to development. The nature of this program assumes one has access to squat stands, a bench, a barbell and some weight. This isn't exactly demanding in the way of exotic equipment. I can empathize with your predicament but you are effectively limited to pulling from the floor as your core fundemental exercise. or cleaning a weight and front squatting. I wish I could tell you something different since you have the desire and that's the most important part but unfortunately access to some basic equipment is also critical. You can certainly try to develop something on your own using the loading pattern or volume as a guide and try it.
    I probubly will
    or I may wait until I can pick up a squat rack and do the program proper like govna...
    I have been doing Linear and Step Cycles from Pavel's Power to the People, and I have been getting such pleasing strength gains that I love it
    so maybe by the time I get a squat rack I will have grown ready for a change of pace

  5. #85
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by Madcow2
    blut wump's answer is dead on. If it's any consolation I almost never get sore if I'm acclimated to training. Generally those getting sore train a body part with low frequency and high volume to failure. This gets you nice and sore but is dog shit for results over a period.
    I do that sometimes
    aside frm the failure part
    I either do a low frequency high volume or a low volume high frequency routine
    I have never done a mid volume mid frequency I dont think

  6. #86
    A 'HALO' over my head... BionicBC's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by mayhems
    hmm i guess i can live with 3-4 days at the gym for 9-10 weeks at least.. but 1 thing i did everything i was suppose to do, but dont really feel sore? will it kick in after a few workouts or usually right away

    gotta love the good ol' sore test
    Oh, madcow is gonna have a field day with this one...

    Bionic

  7. #87
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by BionicBC

    Quote: Originally Posted by mayhems

    hmm i guess i can live with 3-4 days at the gym for 9-10 weeks at least.. but 1 thing i did everything i was suppose to do, but dont really feel sore? will it kick in after a few workouts or usually right away

    gotta love the good ol' sore test


    Oh, madcow is gonna have a field day with this one...

    Bionic
    Not long ago, though, I'd have thought the same: that soreness was a good indicator of how well the workout was going to be of benefit to my progress.

    I was working each bodypart to failure once a week for about four or five weeks and then taking a week off before starting again ramping up the intensity and volume until I again felt impending burnout. Despite the ever-present soreness and hard workouts, the strength gains were slowing to a crawl at best and that's what drove me to the internet in search of knowledge. There had to be a major flaw in my training method.

    When I saw madcow's original posting of this routine I filed it away under 'interesting'. After a bit more reading and thought on the idea behind the dual-factor paradigm, I decided it made a lot of sense and was worth a two-month investment. The program also tied in nicely with other changes I wanted to make to my workouts which was cool. I've made better gains in the past two months than I have in the previous six.

    I have one question. How would one judge when one is ready to run the program as 3-1-3 rather than 4-1-4 in weeks of volume-deload-intensity? Maybe it's something that'll become obvious after a few times through.

  8. #88
    A 'HALO' over my head... BionicBC's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by Blut Wump
    Not long ago, though, I'd have thought the same: that soreness was a good indicator of how well the workout was going to be of benefit to my progress.

    I was working each bodypart to failure once a week for about four or five weeks and then taking a week off before starting again ramping up the intensity and volume until I again felt impending burnout. Despite the ever-present soreness and hard workouts, the strength gains were slowing to a crawl at best and that's what drove me to the internet in search of knowledge. There had to be a major flaw in my training method.

    When I saw madcow's original posting of this routine I filed it away under 'interesting'. After a bit more reading and thought on the idea behind the dual-factor paradigm, I decided it made a lot of sense and was worth a two-month investment. The program also tied in nicely with other changes I wanted to make to my workouts which was cool. I've made better gains in the past two months than I have in the previous six.

    I have one question. How would one judge when one is ready to run the program as 3-1-3 rather than 4-1-4 in weeks of volume-deload-intensity? Maybe it's something that'll become obvious after a few times through.
    Actually, isnt it 4-1-5? For a total of 10 weeks?
    Bionic

  9. #89
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by BionicBC
    Actually, isnt it 4-1-5? For a total of 10 weeks?
    Bionic
    I'd give you K for that but it seems I don't spread enough.

    I've been working towards a 9 week total and I run out of weight at the gym next week for my Friday squats. I'm already having to press 1.25Kg weights into the gaps in the 20Kg rubber-coated plates to turn them into 25s. This is a blow, so much for learning to read.

    Everyone must have wondered why I was talking about week 8 PRs. I'll have to think on this one and see what next week brings. I guess this means I'm going to get even stronger.

    I'm going to start by re-reading this thread from the beginning.

    Thanks, I owe you K

  10. #90
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    I believe it is 4-1-4.

    You are supposed to pr in week's 3 and 8, and then try for another pr week's 4 and 9.

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