Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[siamesedream]

Is there any reason to even stop doing the 5x5? I mean, if someone just finished the dual-factor program and they want to wait a few weeks before doing it again, couldn't they just switch to the single-factor and wait a few weeks before beginning the dual again and thus make the 5x5 a way of life rather than something to include every now and then?

 

[siamesedream]

On benching on Mondays, could I possibly add in a 6th set of 3 using the same weight I used for my 5th set?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Is there any reason to even stop doing the 5x5? I mean, if someone just finished the dual-factor program and they want to wait a few weeks before doing it again, couldn't they just switch to the single-factor and wait a few weeks before beginning the dual again and thus make the 5x5 a way of life rather than something to include every now and then?

At some point you'd want to change the workload, use different exercises, change the set/rep scheme, address sticking points/weaknesses/etc. If I understand madcow correctly (hopefully he'll chime in if I'm way off), he's a big fan of the dual factor 5x5 because:

-for intermediates it's a good catch-all in terms of the total workload
-it all about the compound lifts which is what just about everyone should focus on regardless of experience
-it serves as the beginning of structured training (plotting out cycles based on need/goals) and therefore is an excellent start to learning more about training art/science vs. the stuff you read in mags, hear at the gym, and other questionable info sources

There's a lot more to training than the 5x5, and mc has stated this on numerouos occasions. It's just an excellent place to start for tons of people b/c most are used to working out but not while implementing dual-factor theory or setting up training cycles. Hope that helps. Maybe some others can explain better but that's basically the way I understand it.

 

[blut wump]

You can run it two or three times back-to-back if you wish but, unless you're a complete hermit, you'll eventually feel the need to try other things. As Guinness5.0 mentions, you'll notice that some assistance work here and there might be needed or maybe you even want a month to consolidate your gains and spend a while recovering or doing some speed work or higher-rep work in the 8-10 range or even more.

So long as you acquire the knowedge behind the 5x5, it's done its job.

 

[blut wump]

On benching on Mondays, could I possibly add in a 6th set of 3 using the same weight I used for my 5th set?

Of course you could but why would you want to? Maybe you'd be better served by adding a little more to one or more of the 5 scheduled sets. That's more likely to add to the overall loading effect than throwing in an extra set of 3. If you're still feeling chipper try working out a little faster.

 

[siamesedream]

Well, it's not that I'm feeling a ton of energy or anything like that. I'm on my 3rd week of the single-factor program and seem to have missed the strength gain that I was planning on having this week and am a little upset. On benching, my top set is my absolute 5-rep max, and between sets 2 and 3, 3 and 4, and 4 and 5, I lock out and hold the bar for anywhere from 5-15 seconds. Another problem could be the fact that I'm on a caloric deficit and have the main goal of losing fat right now, and I have 40 or 50 pounds of fat to lose before I'm at the place I want to be at, so strength gain is secondary but I'm still willing to do anything I possibly can to try to up my lifts since they're so incredibly pathetic.

Aren't people supposed to up their lifts 5-10 pounds every week on the 5x5? I've only been upping by 5 and this is only my 3rd week yet I died bench-pressing today. My last rep on my top set took around 5-10 seconds of pushing with everything I had to actually get it up. Even though I'm a novice lifter, I start to wonder if I'd be better suited doing a more intense version of the 5x5 than the single-factor one posted on the main page of this thread.

I'll upload my current routine for this week so someone can critique it or something or recommend anything. I'll also upload my food log for last week so anyone can tell me if my food intake is a problem when trying to gain strength since my main goal is fat loss.

 

[siamesedream]

What about cluster training? I've heard good things about it. If anything, I'd like to use it on bench pressing. Could I do 5x5 cluster training with bench pressing and keep everything else the same, or could I cluster train with all 3 major lifts or something?

 

[Guinness5.0]

I'll upload my current routine for this week so someone can critique it or something or recommend anything. I'll also upload my food log for last week so anyone can tell me if my food intake is a problem when trying to gain strength since my main goal is fat loss.

I just looked at your log and I think you're doing too much extra stuff. Toss the declines, close-grip, etc. and you'll get stronger faster. Also, I personally HATE upright rows b/c they make my shoulders hurt if done with anything close to challenging weights.

 

[siamesedream]

Well, I added in the declines and close-grip because I can't do enough dips to make a good workout of it yet and couldn't think of any other good substitute besides breaking it down into decline and close-grip benching.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Well, I added in the declines and close-grip because I can't do enough dips to make a good workout of it yet and couldn't think of any other good substitute besides breaking it down into decline and close-grip benching.

That's a reasonable conclusion, but IMO it's still too much extra. Do what dips you can, trying to improve a bit week to week. Those upright rows will hurt your bench progress IMHO, regardless of whether or not they bother your shoulders like they do mine- there's plenty of shoulder work in the program as laid out.