Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Guinness5.0]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

i dont see how i can be doing 245 3x3, but not 255 even 1x3? but who knows...

I don't get it either but it happened to me too. There really doesn't seem to be too much aof a difference form 3x3 to 1x3 in terms of the weight used. I didn't understand why I could do 305 for 3x3 but BARELY get 315 for 1x3. It's like a 3% difference in weight but a much larger % diff in terms total workload (pounds moved). Go figure.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I don't get it either but it happened to me too. There really doesn't seem to be too much aof a difference form 3x3 to 1x3 in terms of the weight used. I didn't understand why I could do 305 for 3x3 but BARELY get 315 for 1x3. It's like a 3% difference in weight but a much larger % diff in terms total workload (pounds moved). Go figure.

lol, at least you got your 315 though

damn i want that 255, looks like ill have to crush it next time though

 

[blut wump]

It's mostly down to how much recovery time you need and how much of that you decide to take. The rest is just the conditioning to be able to do somewhere near a max lift and then be able to do it again shortly afterwards.

 

[siamesedream]

Hey madcow, I have a simple question for you. On benching[normal, incline, decline, etc.] dumbbells or barbells? Or maybe alternating each week between dumbbells and barbells?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Hey madcow, I have a simple question for you. On benching[normal, incline, decline, etc.] dumbbells or barbells? Or maybe alternating each week between dumbbells and barbells?

Barbells are superior due to the fact that more weight can be used. More weight= more stimulus/load. MC has answered this in this thread so you may want to look for it- though it may take a while to dig through it all

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey madcow, I have a simple question for you. On benching[normal, incline, decline, etc.] dumbbells or barbells? Or maybe alternating each week between dumbbells and barbells?

Never alternate like that. Pick something and spend a period of time improving your capacity in it. Switching like that is moronic (and yeah - that means there are a lot of people training like morons that don't realize it). That's not to say that can't do bench M/F and use incline DBs or some such on Wed but the idea is that you choose something and improve for a period of time which is generally 4-8 weeks or something of a decent range.

The body adapts over time, not necessarily session to session. Specificity and frequency are strong drivers of adaptation. If you do a movement a lot, your body gets better at it, and your capacity increases at a faster rate. This is also why you don't have 25 exercises or some crap because the body doesn't do any one thing often enough to gain much benefit.

In the end, all else held equal, a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle and more BBers should be looking at the massive volumes of very high quality research on strength training for advanced and elite athletes - these guys have no problem putting on muscle. Granted we aren't talking about a 1RM all the time but if your goal is to be fast at a distance of 45 yards, there's probably a lot of benefit in looking at the massive amount of work done on getting fast at 40 yards. It's not a different world like many in BBing believe, more like plain vanilla ice cream vs. extra creamy vanilla ice cream (not ice cream vs. motor oil). You get stronger at the big lifts in a decent hypertrophy range, eat enough, and your body will layer on the muscle to compensate for the higher workload. You'll generally develop very symmetrically according to your genetics, when you see a problem (most generally don't) adjust for a bit - but don't do 20 proactive adjustments due to a debilitating over-concern about symmetry and wind up putting on muscle at 20% the rate.

Anyway, check out these pics over at TotalElite: http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110&st=0

This was a heavily sarcastic post made on page #3 but between this and the pics on page 1 in the above link, it should illustrate my point:

What a lot of strength athletes don't understand is that bodybuilding is totally different. A whole different type of hypertophy that requires vastly different exotic training methods that rarely get results and generally require anabolics to break 200lbs. Let me tell you all that building significant muscle mass on a Yoda-esque program using exotic rep schemes on cables and machines, days of dedicated biceps training, with an overbearing focus on trace mineral balance and insufficient caloric intake makes it really hard to put on muscle. These guys have to have it all together to show any appreciable gains.

Guys that eat and are able to rely on basic programs to increase their weights in squats, pulls, and presses doing basic exercises that strengthen the body and force it to adapt with increased muscle have it easy. They will never know what it's like to fight through moronic inefficiency to needlessly differentiate your training and alleviate worry that when you eventually do start gaining weight someday, it will be in perfect symmetry and proportion - all at 2lbs a year.

Anyway, as to DB or Barbell - most people can handle a lot more weight with their body working against a single object. The way you gain muscle is to stress the entire system - all the best exercises load the system through a range of motion (squat, dead, bench, row, chin, overhead). Isolation is a pretty shitty way to stimulate growth no matter how it might feel in a certain muscle (hence the flat bench not being the best pec activator yet a really solid builder of overall muscle including the pecs, or the squat building great quads far better than the leg extension). So, you apply more weight to the system with a barbell. Bread and butter stuff - use a barbell as default. That's not to say DBs aren't great and should never be included but only that you should have a specific purpose for deviating or simply to provide a different emphasis for a period. Most people who recommend dumbells talk about "feel" in a target muscle or range of motion or some other stuff - the bottom line is that neither of these compensates enough for the increased load you can move on the barbell. BTW - the opinion I'm voicing here isn't unique to me, there is a reason why barbells are used and just about anyone who really knows this stuff will tell you this.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

awsome. thats what ill do then. but lower freqnecy the first week? so you mean dont do what i was doing (benching, squatting, rowing monday and friday, and shoulder pressing, pullups, deads wednesday?

what would you suggest as far as a split is concerned while im doing this.


-in the next post ill type out how things went

Well, if you are really beat right now - you need to recover. Look at the 2x option in my description of the 5x5. Train twice the first week and keep it light. You'll probably be better off than the same volume over 3x. You sounded beat to me so you want to deload, adapt, and get back in the game hard at full strength.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Finnish Deadlift Secrets

This was something I had on my harddrive. Probably a fun read for a few of you as I know more than a few have managed some PR pulls lately and seem really into handling heavy weight.

Finnish Deadlift Secrets​

Sakari Selkäinaho​

________________________________________

Through out the years, the deadlift has been our ”national sport” here in Finland. World records has been broken since early 70´s. What makes Finns pull so much, what is their secret ?
I took a look and after collecting training information of many new and former greats, here is some background and information.

# 1 Genetics

To be able to lift a lot, you have to be talented athlete. Most of the guys had long arms and legs. You could see middleweights pulling over 200 kilos the first time they saw a power bar. But that's only a good start. The best deadlifters in the late 70`s and early 80´s had two things in common. Most of them had a background of hard labor, like lumberjacks, construction workers, farmers or something similar. They carried, lifted and dragged for their living. That laid a perfect background for deadlift training and very often ensured a hard grip too. The second thing was Olympic lifting background, they had pulled alot before their powerlifting career. Raimo Välineva held Scandinavian records in Olympic lifting and was able to clean 330 pounds with straight legs. He had World records of 688 in 148´s and 716 in 165´s in early 80`s. When weightlifting had the press it was more a pure strength sport as now when speed and technique more critical.
Many of the new lifters have some type of athletic background from other sports. Ismo Lappi, 338,5 kg deadlifter in 165´s, has thrown javelin over 75 yards and ran 100 meters in under 11 seconds in his teens. He is fast and explosive enough to deadlift big.

# 2 Squatting for the deadlift

All of the former record holders and many of today's too, squatted with a narrow stance. This had two advantages. First, it served as an excellent special exercise for deadlift. Many trained the squat three times a week. Twice back squatting and once front squatting. The other back squat could be a high bar session.
Other squat exercises were something like lunges, or step squats, using bar on back. These were done sometimes a box under front or back feet, varying how it hits glutes and hamstrings. A 8-12 inch box under back feet hits the upper part of glutes quite hard.
Many used different stances. The narrow stance high bar was the most common but many, like Taito Haara, Reijo Kiviranta and Hannu Saarelainen, squatted with 3-4 stances.
During the last years, the box squat has become very popular in Finland. Janne Toivanen put it in practice by hauling up 804 in `96 IPF World's in Austria. Many have followed. Ano Turtiainen started using the box and now pulls over 859 in every meet he enters. Ismo Lappi, the new WR holder in 165´s in IPF, does box squats as assistance. Veli Kumpuniemi stated that if would have known how to use a box in his prime he would have lifted a lot more. How much more? He tore his hamstring while trying 804 in the 181´s back in 1981. He hit 822 ( 373 kilos ) in a national before that weighing under 190 pounds. All his hamstrings could handle he hauled up. He never really recovered but wanted to send his compliments to Louie Simmons for this excellent exercise.

# 3 Deadlift variety

Many still train the deadlift two times a week. In the early days, it was not rare to deadlift three times a week. Veli Kumpuniemi, the only man we call Mr Deadlift in Finland, trained deadlift sometimes four times a week. Here's some pulls to use:

Deadlift standing on the block. Many used 2-6 inch block and pulled standing on it. That has been a pull used very often. Many did these for 3-5 reps using conventional style even if they pulled sumo in meets.
Straigth leg deadlifts. These were done off floor or using a block under feet. There were two styles. Some pulled with a bent over style, rounding the lower back. Some, like Janne Toivanen, Ismo Lappi and Ano Turtiainen, pulled in a romanian style with arched back and pushing glutes to rear. With a round back, most used only 40-50% for high reps like 10´s or so. For the romanian style, some go quite heavy. Janne Toivanen hauled up 4x661 from an 4 inch box and Ano Turtiainen has done 5x727 off floor.
Olympic pulls. These were done many times as a warm-up or speed work before the deadlifting. High pulls, raw cleans, raw snatches were the most common. The old school did some pulls with straight legs like Russians.
Pulls with a snatch grip. This has two variations too. Some pulled the weight all the way up and some just up to past knees. These developed technique by forcing you to keep shoulders in line and it´s a good one correct technique.
Partials. Hannu Saarelainen did partials on knee level, just moving the bar from below to above the knee. The bar traveled 8-10 inches in the area where the leverages were the poorest. He did high reps with rather light weight. He tried to get speed too to overcome the sticking point as fast as possible. By concentrating on weakness enabled Hannu to pull 765 in 242´s with quite poor leverages for deadlift. Rack pulls and pulls where the bar is on blocks are common, although they do not benefit as many as you could imagine.
Hack deadlifts. Many long armed lifters were able to pull with the bar behind their back. This form of deadlift developed the leg drive and helped to get the bar off floor.

# 4 Technique

Veli Kumpuniemi stated that if his foot stance was half inch off, the bar stayed on floor. And Veli was ranked rather a power puller than a technique expert which he was too. The conventional deadlift was always mostly back work. But the sumo pullers were sort of split in two categories. People like Raimo Välineva and Hannu Malinen, the 1988 IPF World champion, used the hips alot. Raimo Välineva was the developer of the style maximized hip drive in sumo deadlift. Lifters with extreme tecnique had quite a difference between sumo and conventional deadlift. Ari Virtanen, the little brother of Jarmo had one of the best technique I have ever seen. Every weight he got off floor he finished too. Ari´s best conventional was around 570-580 and he pulled 677 with sumo in `91 World's. Pirjo Savola, the European Record holder in 123´s with 446 said she has a best conventional of 360-370 range.
Sumo lifters with a strong back, like Veli Kumpuniemi, Janne Toivanen and Aarre Käpylä locked out their legs way before extending their torso. Aarre Käpylä, who pulled 10x661 via conventional too, got the most out of his hips by keeping his legs almost straight. Jarmo Virtanen, an eight time IPF World champ, used the technique.
People used to think that Jarmo Virtanen was just very talented and had good leverages. They couldn't be more wrong. He had many things on perfecting the technique. Once he demonstrated the difference between relaxed and flexed shoulders. By dropping shoulders and using sumo, the distance was 12 inches shorter than using conventional with flexed upper body. He stressed the importance of being relaxed while deadlifting .
You should climb to tree from bottom. Most advised to learn to pull conventional first, then switch to sumo. Reijo Kiviranta, Kullervo Lampela and other conventional style greats stressed two key points. The is to push your knees over the bar in the start position. This brings the hips closer to bar and makes the leverages better. The other thing was to turn feet out. This helped the lockout and enabled specially the bigger lifters to use their hip muscles.

# 5 Basic strength and GPP

Like mentioned in beginning, many early day deadlifters did physical labor which laid good background for training heavy and often. Olympic lifting was an aid too.
Many of todays lifters don´t do any other physical work than train with weights. So the GPP has to come from somewhere else. Janne Toivanen did an extra workout six times a week, early in the morning. He did abs, side work and sometimes lower back work together with some aerobic training and streching. His training program would kill most people, but he found a way to back it up. Ismo Lappi does the same type of workouts too. It keeps the bodyfat low and aids recovery.
At the moment five or six our strongmen pull 800 pounds or more. They have long competitive season when their weight training is mostly for conditioning and recovery. Their training is one form of conjugate method. They carry, drag, lift stones and flip tires and cars using the same muscles that are important in deadlifting. Jukka Laine did 804 in September ´98 and had deadlifted twice during the summer. All he did was the event training and many meets. Jouko Aholas deadlift stayed in the same range with no deadlift training at all. He used a short cycle to peak and succeeded with 853 in meet. Janne Virtanen and Juha Räsänen both pull over 800 too, 837 is their best in training but either of them haven't attended in any meets so far.

# 6 Assistance work

Most supplemented their training with wide variety of assistance exercises. Two key muscle groups were upper back and lats and the abs.
As you noticed, I ranked Mr Deadlift, Veli Kumpuniemi as a strenght puller. Here's why. What do think about chins with up to 200 pounds for 5-6 reps, bent over rows using 400+ pounds or doing one arm rows with 185 pound dumbbell for 8-10 reps ? It was usual stuff for him and it was assistance work, not something he shot for.
Weighted chins are quite common still but the variety is wide. Ano Turtiainen likes to do lat pulls with different handles, and low pulley rows. He does chest supported and bent over rows too. Many do shrugs every now and then.
The lifters in the early 80`s or late 70`s trained abs with flat or incline sit-ups using weight many times. Side work was done using a short bar or dumbbell. One other thing they did was one arm deadlifts. They stressed the stabilizing muscles a lot too. Today a variety of leg raises, pull down abs in lat machine and abs done in a ab machine add the number of exercises alot. One thing that has become popular last years is the ab wheel. Most lifters do it on their knees using plate on their back, it targets the abs more instead of hip flexors.
As you see, the low back was trained pretty much with the main exercises, squats and pulls. The older school did also good mornings, mostly after squatting for 5-10 rep sets. Then they became a forgotten exercise until last years. Ano Turtiainen went way over 700 pounds using bands and two sets of chains as an extra resistance during his preparation for WPO semi´s. The other thing many did and still do is back extensions. These are usually done with a bar on back. Rauno Rinne used these regularly and pulled 799 in 220´s.

# 7 Jarmo Virtanen´s deadlift secrets

Jarmo Virtanen, who many consider the best powerlifter ever in Europe, was great in the deadlift. He was an excellent squatter too. Here's some things behind his success.
In his youth he trained both power lifting and weightlifting at the same time. He also trained other sports like football and has always done some sort of physical labor. His GPP has always been high. A lot of different squats and deadlifts insured a high SPP level. A nine time IPF World Champ did lifts like high bar, front and squats with different stances. He deadlifted with both conventional and sumo, he estimated that he may have done little more conventional work than sumo. Sometimes he used the snatch grip too. One of his deadlift variations was sumo off an 1 inch blocks. He sometimes went quite high on these, 694 was his best.
He pulled conventional sets where he stopped the bar before it hit the floor to develop static strength and tightness in the start position. When using sumo, he always did every rep as the first one. Jarmo said that bouncing the bar off is a waste specially in the sumo style. He developed speed by high pulls. He did not extend his hips in the weightlifting style. He continued the pull with upper back and traps to the navel level.
He had a picture perfect technique, specially in the ´80s when he hasn't hurt hips thigh. He developed that by squatting with an ultra wide stance, sometimes he used a Smith-machine to be able to squat as upright as possible. He practiced technique with no weights in front of mirror. It was his routine every day for six months. As far as assistance go, he did a lot of ab work but has never done good mornings. He felt they make you too stiff. He stressed the importance of being relaxed, specially in the upper body area and felt it was crucial for getting better leverages in the deadlift and squat too.
Jarmo never really maxed out in the gym and usually stayed under 300 kilos in training. He was great competitor. In 1988, in our national record breakers in the biggest ice hockey venue at the time, he hauled up 358 kilos twice but dropped it just before down signal. With torn hand, he came back and pulled it again just to loose the grip again before the ”down” command. Year before, when lifting in 75 kilo class he was on a roll. In the World's in Norway he opened with 677 and went to WR 333 and pulled it nicely. Then he attacked twice to 340,5 kilos ( 750 pounds ) but the grip was his nemesis. Before he got the grip problem fixed, he hurt his outer thigh. There was, and still is, some scar tissue that is pressing to nerves. With the grip he had in `90s and the better technique and flexibility of `80s he would have gone a lot more. Many times I have wondered why his squat went up 20 kilos but the deadlift stayed the same. Believe it or not, he never got the best out of him in the deadlift. A 815-826 deadlift and 900 kilo ( 1984 pound ) total where something he capable of but never achieved.
We have had lots of great pullers and power lifters and we had Jarmo Virtanen. He is one of a kind. One sign of his true sportsmanship was this interview. He has always willing to help anyone whether it is training, coaching or giving seminars.
Being a no class deadlifter myself, I have given this a lot of thought. Reijo Kiviranta, the 1981 World Champ in 242´s put it together nicely by saying that the one who lifts the most has trained the most. After reading this article, you can get a picture what he meant. There is no secrets at all, just pure hard work. It's the cold hard truth. If you want to finish on top you have to be a good deadllifter. So it's time for some deadlift labor, good luck !

Sakari Selkäinaho

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Coan/Phillipi Deadlift Routine

SOURCE LINK: http://www.powerpage.net/coanphildead.html

Coan/Phillipi Deadlift Routine
ADDED WEDNESDAY, August 7, 2002

I used this routine the last 10 weeks to take my deadlift from 505 to 540. I had at least another 20-30lbs left as well!! I am a believer in this routine, I had tried many things for my dead but until my good friend Ed Coan got me to do this nothing really worked. This jump started me and then some!! Since I have had so many request about it and now it been tested in a meet I am posting for all to see.

There are two parts to this, first I will list the Weekly progression of sets/reps and assistance to be performed, how they are done and how much. The second part is gonna be an Excel Spreadsheet with formulas that you need to download and plug in your numbers to get the weight to be used each week on Deadlifts, Speed Deads, and Shrugs.

PART I

The percentages are taken from this projected max. The first 4 weeks are based on working up to a heavy set and dropping to work short rest period sets concentrating on speed and acceleration of movement. This will help condition your back. This will prepare you to lift with your back pre-fatigued which happens at the meet.

The last 6 weeks are used to peak out with all volume work taking place on the way down with short rest periods.

DEADLIFT PROGRAM (Do your regular warmups prior to doing the below)

WEEK
WORK SETS
SPEED SETS

1
(75%)x 2 reps
(60%)8 sets x 3 reps (90 sec rest b/w sets)

2
(80%)x 2 reps
(65%)8 sets x 3 reps (90 sec rest b/w sets)

3
(85%)x 2 reps
(70%)6 sets x 3 reps (90-120 sec rest b/w sets)

4
(90%)x 2 reps
(75%)5 sets x 3 reps (90-120 sec rest b/w sets)

5
(80%)3 sets x 3 reps
(65%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

6
(85%)x 2 reps
(70%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

7
(90%)x 2 reps
(75%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

8
(95%)x 2 reps
(70%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

9
(97.5%)x 1 rep
(70%)2 sets x 3 reps (Rest as needed)

10
(100%)x 1 rep
(60%)2 sets x 3 reps (Rest as needed)

11
MEET DAY
N/A


ASSISTANCE WORK

WEEKS 1-4: Work through the following exercises in a circuit format. Resting 90 seconds between each exercise (DO NOT SUPER SET). Do 8 reps and rest 2-3 minutes between the end of the circuit and beginning of the circuit again. Do this 3 times for a total of 3x8 reps on each exercise.

1.) Stiff Leg Deadlifts
2.) Bent Over Rows
3.) Underhand Grip Lat Pulldowns
4.) Arched Back Good Mornings

WEEKS 5-6: You will do the following exercises for 3 sets of 5. (DO NOT CIRCUIT, Do one exercise finish all your sets and move on to next exercise. Rest 90-120 sec between sets.)

1.) Power Shrugs
2.) Stiff Leg Deadlifts
3.) Bent Over Rows
4.) Underhand Grip Lat Pulldowns
5.) Arched Back Good Mornings

Now here is where it gets tricky. In the following table you will see what percentage to use on Power Shrugs ONLY. Do sets/reps as prescribed in table above for weeks 5-6.

WEEK 5: Power Shrugs (60%) of Dead max
WEEK 6: Power Shrugs (65%) of Dead max
WEEK 7: Power Shrugs (70%) of Dead max
WEEK 8: Power Shrugs (75%) of Dead max
WEEK 9: Power Shrugs (75%) of Dead max

WEEKS 7-8: Now here is where the volume will drop and you will start to drop the number of sets you do for each exercise on assistance. Use the below table as a guideline for sets beginning with week 7.

Week 7--2 sets of each exercise
Week 8--2 sets of each exercise

WEEKs 9-10: Now we drop most of the assistance to start to rest up for meet by reducing the volume of work done. Follow the below table for the last two weeks of Cycle. Do only the assistance listed below!!

Week 9

Week 10
2 sets of Shrugs(75%)

NO ASSISTANCE
2 sets of St Leg Deads



PART II

Download the Excel spreadsheet and plug in your current max and desired max at the top and it will automatically calculate what you are to do weight wise for each week as detailed in the first chart above.

CLICK FOR SPREADSHEET HERE

CONCLUSION

I know this routine works, I have done it with 100% sucess. I have also spread this to others and they are so far seeing similar resutls. My training partner Clint has also seen great progress from this and I fully expect BIG things from him in his meet in Feb 2003!! But be forewarnded, this is a tough routine, one of the toughest I have ever tried. You may think your in shape but wait till you start this, the Puke factor on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 12!! Be tough, have fun and you will reap the rewards!!

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Training Theory by Angelface from Meso

These posts were from the old Meso board and are now in one of the stickies there. Probably a great foundation, sure would help if a BBing magazine printed something like this rather than their usual trash.

Source Thread: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=8500

Date: 09/30/01 09:44 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Here we go

...Right then I've basically decided to create this thread pretty much
as a resource on training theory...What I intend to do is make this
thread kinda like a text book so that anyone can refer to it if they
need to know something...this will take me a while to complete so I am
gonna do it in installments like small chapters...If the thread looks
like its gonna disappear cuz I havent posted can you please bump it to
keep the sucka active?... ...Why am I doing this? well for 2 reasons
really...the first is so that everyone out there has access to theories
that they may not neccessarily be familiar with...therefore I hope
everyone will learn something from this thread or at least it will jog
their memories and make you think a little... Plus I am getting
complacent so this will hopefully serve as a refresher for myself and
get me thinking again!... ...I will try to make it as readable as I can
so its not gonna be mega scientific or complex because I dont have the
resources...all information that I will post...I will backup with
literature when the thread is completed....Its not gonna be realy long
just enough to present you with some good basic information and
hopefully introduce you all to training theory so that you can apply it
to yourself... If anyone has got anything to add please feel free to do
so...


Date: 09/30/01 10:29 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Basic Concepts...

...This first few parts will deal with a few basic theories and will be
somewhat introductory. ...ADAPTATION.. Adaptation is both the primary
target of training in general and one of the most important laws that
governs the way we train. A simple definition of adaptation would be
adjustment to environment. Consequently when the environment is subject
to change so too would be the object. The primary objective in training
is to incite explicit adaptations to increase performance. Consequenlty
it can be seen that the application of a carefully contrived training
program is imperitive. For adaptation to occur then the stimulus for the
adaptation has to be at a greater level than the current standing. To
increase the magnitude manipulating the intensity, volume and modality
is often employed. Consequnetly if the same stimulus is being presented
over a long period of time then once intial adaptations have occured
there will be no more changes thus a plateau forms. Training loads are
often categorized into three areas according to the 'magnitude' that
they correspond to ... ...The first would be a stimulating
magnitude...here the training load is above the habitual level... ...The
second is retaining...this is where the level is neutral and thus
maintained... ...The third is thus detraining...here the magnitude is
beneath the habitual level and thus a decline in performance is
observed. Essentially for any positive adaptation to occur then OVERLOAD
must be created. In the absence of overload typically performance will
either be maintined for a period of time or decrease. This is governed
by accomodation. ACCOMODATION is in essence a decrease in response
observed to a continual stimulus. Thus interms of training continual
stimulus results in a loss of reponse. Resulting in a plateau, training
thus becomes redundant. This concept neccessitates the need to present
yourslef with variety. It is unwise to present yourself with the same
stimulus for a long period of time. Avoidance of the accomodation effect
can be achievd by the simple application of variety achieved via
quantitaive (load, volume intensity etc)and qualitative (types of
exercises performed) measures. Adaptation to training stimulus is
specific. For a particular training goal to be observed the stimulus
(training) has to be specific to the goal. Consequently it would be
unwise for an olympic weightlifter to train like an endurance athlete
and vice versa. SPECIFICITY is the application of the training stimulus
to the nature of the intended goal. Therefore if an individual wanted to
increase his benchpressing ability it woudl be wise to train the muscles
resposibles for the movement.... ...

Date: 09/30/01 04:25 PM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Adaptations as response to training part1...

...Adaptations as a response to the training stimulus can be classified
as either Central (CNS)and peripheral (pertaining to the muscle). The
importance of the central nervous system cannot be underestimated. to
appreciate the adaptations that occur centrally we must first be aware
of how these central factors work. Typically central factors fall into
two distinct categories. The first is intramuscular coordination..this
relates to which the muscle fibres can be activated voluntarily.
Intermuscular coordination is the coordinated innervation of appropriate
muscell groups and is thus skill related. Motor units are the essential
foundations of the motor system. Typically they consist of motoneurons,
axons, motor endplates, and muscle fibres activated by a motor neuron.
Motor units are generally classified into to groups based on their
contractile characteristics. Slow motor units are typically used for
prolonged use at low intensities, they consist of small low threshold
motor neurons axos with low conduction frequencies and slow twitch
muscle fibres. Consequently fast motor units are the antithesis of slow
motor units. They will consist of a large high threshold motor neuron,
an axon with a high conduction velocity and fast twitch muscle fibres.
the activation of a motor unit is solicited by an all or nothing law.
basically this dictates that a motor unit either fires or it doesnt.
Consequently there is no alteration in the inetnisty of firing, they
either fire or they dont. the Central nervous system governs muscle
force via three methods...RECRUITMENT, RATE CODING and SYNCHRONIZATION.
The recruitment pattern of the motor units during a voluntary
contraction is dependant on the size of the motor neurons (Size
principle). the motorneurons with the lowest firing threshold
(smaller)are recruited first, conseqnelty the more the intensity
increases the larger forces neccessary to generate are done so via
increasing the recruitment of the larger motorneurons. Consequently no
matter what the intensity of exercise slow twich fibres will be
recruited to some extent. The achieving of full motor unit activation is
deemed particularly difficult thus untrained individuals cannot recruit
all their motor units. one of the primary adaptations that occurs as
aresponse to weight training is an increase in the ability to recruit
Motor units. thus trained individual have an increased propensity for
motor unit activation. RATE CODING is the discharge frequency of the
motorneurons. With an increase in force needed, firing rate will
increase to accomodate. Synchronisation...motor units work in harmony to
achieve a fluid movemnt pattern. Within the muscle there are specific
inhibitory mechanisms that inhibit the amount of force that can be
generated. These are known as Golgi tendon organs and Renshaw cells. It
is common in life or death situation for a completely untrained
individual to be able to produce massive amounts of force...this is most
likely due to an inactivation of these inhibitory mechanisms. It has
been shown that with strength training a reuction in neural inhibition
can occur increasing the amount of strength that can be generated due to
an increase in the recruitable 'motorneron pool'. Exercise is a highly
skillful sequence that requires the complex coordination of several
muscel groups (intermuscular coordination). Consequently motor learning
or the acquisition of skillshould be a primary training objective.
Dramatic strength increases in beginners is oftem the result of skill
acquisition, consequently this type of adaptaion has little cross over
benefit. Next time I will concntrate on the peripheral adaptations and
consequently the theories of muscular growth.


Date: 10/01/01 11:55 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Adaptations part 2 - peripheral

O.K in the last post I presented a few of the central adaptations that
can occur. These adaptations are repsonsible for the observation of
strength increases without hypertophy. Consequently for the first few
weeks of training when initial increases in strength are observed, the
strength increases are deemed to be the result of neuromuscular
efficiency.
...Peripheral adaptations, this is the area that we as bodybuilders will
be most concerned with. Again I will introduce a few concepts. I will
briefly discuss hypertrophy and hyperplasia. For those that dont have an
understanding of physiology I will briefly explain a few basic concepts.
Again I will keep it pretty simple as I dont want to blind everyone with
science.
Skeletal muscles consist of many many fibres. these are long and
cylindrical in shape they are the cells. Each of the fibres is made up
of myofibrils, which are made up of sarcomeres. These sarcomeres are
made up of both thick (myosin)and thin filaments(actin). The myosinf
filaments have small crossbridges projecting outwards on the end of
these protrusions is the myosin head.
Muscle contraction (known as the sliding filament theory) is the result
of the myosin and actin filaments sliding across each other. This is
because the myosin heads attach the actin and basically pull the
filamnts over each other. This results in a shortening of the sarcomere.
So everytime you contract a muscle this is what happens, it shortens
because the filaments slide. Hence a muscle can only pull, it cannot
push. Muscles with longer sarcomeres (filaments) generally can exert a
greater force because they have more room to overlap. All sarcomeres of
the myofibrils exert the same amount of force, they act in a linear
fashion.
The force produced by a muscle fibre is dependant on the number of actin
and myosin filaments and thus the number of myofibrils. One of the main
adaptations of training is an increased number of myofibrils per muscle
fibre, and an increase in the density and size of the filaments. This
will result in an increase in the cross sectional area (size) of a
muscle. Consequently from this assertion it can be seen why a bigger
muscle is potentially a stronger muscle.
muscle force is dependant on the number of muscle fibres, cross
sectional area of the fibres and thus size.
Increase in muscle size is called muscle hypertophy and is caused by
either an increased number of motor fibre (fibre hyperplasia) or an
increase in the cross sectional area of a muscle fibre(fibre
hypertophy).
Here we will deal with two types of fibre hypertophy, myofibrillar and
sarcoplasmic. Sarcoplasmic hypertophy is the increase in size of the
sarcoplasm, typically filament density will decrease with sarcoplasmic
hypertophy, so that it is possible for a fibre CSA to increase without
increases in strength. Myopfibrillar hypertophy is an enlargement of the
muscle fibre because more myofibrils are formed, consequently it is
usually followed by an increase in filament density and thus strength
increases.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is associated with an increase in
noncontractile tissues, which is why filamnt density decreases.
Myofibrillar hypertophy typically results in an increase in contractile
tissues hence the increase in density and strength.
There are many theories as to how weight training results in hpertophy,
the most widely accpeted theory is that of the breakdown and build up
theory.
This theory in its most basic form speculates that all energy during
exhaustive weigh training is spent on the training itself resulting in
the creation of a catabolic state. Consequently a deficit forms during
training where more amino acids are being broken down than synthesized.
After training protein synthesis is increased massively both post
workout and up till the next session. Protein synthesis will then drop
again during training. The purported increase in muscle size is due to
the fluctuation of protein synthesis which is alleged to result in
SUPERCOMPENSATION of protein and thus hypertophy. This alone
neccesitates the need for more protein in the diet (so fuck off RDAs
etc!).
I wont cover the hormonal affects of training unless you want me to as
some of you will probably want to commit suicide due to boredom!
Phewwwwww, got that (I hope so) I am sure that what I probably just
typed (very badly I am sure as per usual!) will make no sense whatsoever
so I apologise for how this thread will read...not exactly enthralling
stuff i know but it will get much better I promise!
next time we shall cover SUPERCOMPENSATION amoungst a few other
things...


Date: 10/03/01 12:34 PM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Basic Training theories

...After a couple of suggestions I have had I will try my best to keep
things easy reading...today's topic is really
straightforward...regarding what I have spoke about previously I will
edit it and make it more readable...plus I may have to add quite a bit
more physiological stuff and biochemistry depending on how the thread
evolves...
...Anyway SUPERCOMPENSATION...this is a really basic and somewhat
obvious concept that for a while was accepted quite widely...however
nowadays it is deemed a bit too simplistic. This theory is based on the
assumption that training will deplete certain substances, obvious
examples would be glycogen...One theory about hypertophy is that
training acts catabolically. The training serves as a stimulus, after
the training there is the neccessary rest period. After the rest period
it is puported that the appropriate substance concentration will
increase to a level beyond the initial point. Simple really! Now to
ensure that this would happen rest periods would have to be optimal.
optimal is an expression used alot in science, which basically means
desirable. If the rest period was too short then the individual would
not be completely recovered and as such the training would deplete the
substance even more which over a period of time would result in
overtraining and a loss of performance ie: training 4 times a day!. If
the rest interval was too long then the training would lose its stimulus
property, the individual would recover completely and lose the window of
oppurtinutity to provide the stimulus again. So ultimately the
individual would never improve...ie if yu trained once every 2-3 weeks,
you simply would not improve. If the interval is optimal then
improvemnts surely follow.
This theory is then dependant on two factors really: Optimal rest
interval, Optimal load selection. With regards to loads, the load has to
be such so that it stimulates optimally, it cannot be too high or low.
Typically this theory is represented on a wave like diagram (I will link
these asap.). An obvious example of the supercompensation theory is carb
loading. With carb loading for a period of time you deplete the muscle
stores, which would results in a massive drop in CHO levels, after this
occurs an individual would overfeed with an abundance of carbs, the body
is alleged then to store more carbs than the pre depletion level within
the muscle tissue resulting in a greater concentration of carbs. This is
often applied to more than gylcogen, training is alleged to cause a
similar repsonse to protein synthesis, hence the 'break down and build
up' theory. I will post later on with regards to a more complex
approach!.


Date: 10/05/01 05:33 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Two Factor Theory

For this I will be refering to 'the science and practise of strength
training' by Vladimir Zatsiorky as mentioned by John earlier...I forgot
how good this book is and I recommend that anyone interested in this
area to buy it...be warned though if you think that what I say is
confucing just wait.... ...Two factor theory, also called Fitness
fatigue theory is somewhat more complex than supercompensation theory.
This theory is entirely dependant on one thing Zatsiorsky referes to it
as preparedness...I prefer base conditioning. This preparedness or
condition is comprised of two componants: slow changing and fast
changing. Zatsiorsky uses the example of fitness as a slow changing
componant of preparedness. This is because over the short term fitness
does not fluctuate often, however external factors can affect it ie:
illness. Zatsiorsky describes prepardness as a set of 'latent
charcteristics' (he means that they exist but are dependantly
intangible)...these charcteristics can only be measured or quantified at
certain times. Sounds quite complex but you will grasp it soon!...
...This theory works similar to an equillibrium, training will have an
immediate affect (similar to supercompensation) that is the combination
of fatigue and gain. So after a workout, because of the stimulus that it
provides preparedness or conditioning increases (gain) but at the same
time will decrease due to fatigue from the training. Hopefully things
now will start to make sense.
So, the outcome of the training session is the result of both the
positive and negative consequences of the training session. These two
outcomes depend on time as does the one factor theory
(supercompensation). By striking the correct balance, fatigue should be
large in extent but short in how long it lasts. Gain on the other hand
should be moderate however is longer in duration. Typically the
relationship is 1:3, if fatigue lasts x amount of time then gain lasts
3x amount of time.
...From these two theories that have been introduced you should all now
be able to see that the most importnat factor that they introduce is
timing! with the supercompensation theory it is preferable for the next
workout to fall in the supercompensation period. With the
fitness-fatigue theory timing is best if the proceeding workout takes
place when all the negative consequneces (fatigue) of training are
diminsihed but the positive (gain) is still apparent. When I find a site
with the neccessary diagram I will try to link it!


Date: 10/05/01 07:09 PM
Author: johnsmith
Subject: RE: Two Factor Theory

hate to butt in here, but let me explain what i think are the
important things about these theories...
given the one factor theory, which looks at physical ability as, or
course, one factor, you are left with the problem of timing workouts
to correspond to the supercompensation wave... anything sooner or
later will lead to a useless workout.
given the two factor theory, which seperates physical fitness or
prepardness and fatigue, you see that the timing of individual
workouts it is unimportant to long term gains... in other words
regardless of whether or not fatigue is or is not present, fitness can
still be increased...
what is important to note is that there is almost universal agreement
amoung scientists and athletes and coaches in all sports EXCEPT
bodybuilding that the two factor theory is correct and the single
factor theory is not correct and is in fact suitable only for
beginners to follow when planning training.
it is also important to note that most athletes in most sports are
experiencing some level of constant fatigue ALWAYS, except for maybe a
couple of weekends a year, when they are peaking. training takes place
daily against a backdrop of fatigue.

Date: 10/08/01 03:18 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: Two Factor Theory

I am glad you brought this up John, thanks...
...with regards to fatigue yes it is always there only it rises and
falls depending on rest...the accumulation of stresses induced by
training and other variables contribut to fatigue...fatigue has a
mounting effect wherein it can slowly build up and build up until
OTS (over training syndrome) is achieved...this is one of the many
major fundamental reasonings for the peaking phase of periodisation.
And most probably Mike Mentzer's arguments for HIT...so eventially
training can become counterproductive.
...as to why the 2 factor theory is not accepted in BBing I dont
know why...do you John? or anyone else for that matter?...


Date: 10/08/01 03:10 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity

...This is a bigee and therefore I wil dedicate a few posts to
this...cheers for the positive response fellas I really appreciate
it...John, anytime you've got soemthing to add go right ahead mate...I
was hoping that you would contribute to this thread...I kinda feel like
training methods are undervalued hence one of the reasons for me
starting this thread.
...Intensity is a term that is used interchangeably with several
concepts...by this I mean that there are several different ways of
interpreting what constitutes intensity...Often these can be conflicting
but in essence it relates to how hard one is performing...Right then
intensity can be quantified via 4 (usually) criterion assessments:
intensity as a percntage of 1 RM...in Sports sci circles this is the
most common measurement of intensity with regards to strength training
(for aerobic type work intensity is usually measured via %age of max
heart rate)...consequently the closer you are to you 1 Rm in a
particular exercise the higher intensiy that you are working at...the
number of sets performed per hour, this obviuosley correlated to rest
intervals, the shorter the rest interval the more sets that can be
performed and thus the higher intensity...repetitions (this is
conditional really as are all the measures of intensity!)...this general
rule of thumb dictates that the closer you work to failure the higher
intensity (I will address failure several times later on!) you are
working at example: if you can perform 10 reps with x amount of weight
performing 8 reps is more intense than performing 5...the final
measurement is not often employed in the western world and really is
only applicable to competetive athletes in strength sports not
BBers...this is similar to the 1 rm intensity measure...this measure of
intensity is expressed as a %age of highest attained weight or PB...this
differentiates between training weight and competition
weights...external variables such as crowd reaction, motivating factors
etc etc can significantly (I dont use the word significantly lightly..I
am currently using it in the scientific sense of the term!)affect the
amount of weight lifted...anyone familar with the sports psychology term
'flow' or the 'zone' will understand that during competition there are
unexplainable periods wherein an athltes performs their best above any
training measure (whether it be weight lifted or time ran etc etc,
everything comes together effortlessly) hence this intensity measure
quantifies intensity as a %age of competiton weight...this is usually
done via heart rate...if an individual elicits a particularly elevated
HR prior to a lift then that lift is beyond what can be lifted during
training...This was originally a soviet technique (I think, dont quote
me on that)...so what I am trying to say is there are 2 intensities one
is with the presence of stress (eustress is a positive stress that is
beneficial) and without stress...I wont cover this method (thank god i
will be explaining it forever! unless some of the powerlifters would
want me too, let me know if your interested!)...With regards to the %age
of 1 Rm it is important to note that every idividual is different
depending on many factors such as neural efficiency, fibre ratio and so
on...basically if two atrhletes can bench 300lbs for 1 RM...they wont
neccesarilt be able to perform 10 reps with same amount of weight.
...I will cover intensity a lot more very soon!...I will adress training
to failure, optimal rep ranges for goals, TUT (time under
tension!)submaximal training and HIT (whats the betting that this causes
controversey)...also I am gonna apologise in advance as i will be
editing the physio. stuff and including more scientifc terms and
jargon...however its essential that you understand it before we
continue!.


Date: 10/09/01 03:20 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity cont.

Intensity again, as mentioned this is a V. large area so I will be
dealing with it several more times...this pretty much goes hand in hand
with training to failure and as this area has sparked some recent
discussions I will be covering this area several times, from a couple of
different view points...so what is said is not always gospel or an
exact...
...First off training with maximal weights...O>k before I delve into
this I want you to remember rate coding - smallest MUs first etc..well
unless a maximal load is lifted then only a portion of Motor Units are
utilised...Your body will only innervate the amount of Motor units that
are neccessary to perform the task!
...Back to Max weights, essentially gains elicited from max weight are
the result of the two previuos theories of neural adaptation:
intermuscular coordination and intramuscular coordination. Therefore the
majority of gains are not related to muscle growth but neural
efficiency...again I ask you to remeber what was mentioned previuosly
about hypertrophy in paticular the breakdown build up theory of protein
catabolism (training induces catabolism rest and recovery plus adaquate
protein intake induces supercompensation of protein and thus muscle
growth takes place) well because not enough WORK is performed when using
max weights (work = Force x Time, force = mass x acceleration)to
potentiate the neccessary muscle catabolism so that the anabolism can
take place...
...Training to failure via repeated subamaximal reps...this process of
training poetentiates differnet effects. Essentially as more work is
peformed in conjunction with rate coding, more motor units are recruited
to perform the set, again due to the fact that more work is performed
catabolism is markedly higher than training with maximal
weights....however strength gain is not the same as the most allegidle
important reps are performed at the end of set approaching
failure...this is because the higher threshold fatigueing motor units
are recruited and fatigued...thus causing the neccessary training effect
however as they are recruited while 'semi fatigued' the training effect
is not as significant on these motor units in comparison with max
weights.
...training submaximally from what has been mentioned above it would
seem fair to assume that this type of training would be pretty useless
unless it is performed to failure...however the difference between
taking a set to failure or to 1 or even 2 reps before failure will occur
seems negligible..plus by ,manipulating rest intervals shortening the
amount of rest inbetween consecutibe sets intensity is increased or by
increaseing the amount of time it takes to perform the
repetition...training to the exact moment of failure is not neccessarily
imperative...
So then it would appear that a big muscle isnt a strong muscle well this
is inaccurate, again nerual factors offer the reasoning...again I will
use rate coding it is extremely difficult to increase the strength of
slow motor units, hypertophy mainly occurs in the type 2a muscle fibres
(fast/intermediary fibres), consequently there is a correlation between
the size of a fast twitch muscle fibre and strength because the main
training adaptations occur in that muscle fibre type(s)...refering back
to what was said previoulsy about hypertophy due to increased
contrcatile proteins increases strength and muscle size....again this
will be discussed later.
...Next time I will present a different view on training to failure.


Date: 10/11/01 12:40 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity and Failure

Now this is where we start to get to the nitty gritty, but first I will
have to cover some background stuff on fatigue...for this I am assuming
that you have knoweldge of how energy is formed...if not let me know and
I will post some info...
ATP/Pc factors: Intramuscular levels of ATP fall rapidly during
exercise...this is thought to be one of the major factors in fatigue...
Creatine Phosphate levels fall rapidly at the onset of exercise, after a
period of roughly 30 secs levels may be as low as 5% of the prexercise
concentration. Consequenlty there wont be optimal levels of CP to
replenish ATP stores.
Creatine Phosphate fuels the ADP/ ATP conversion, as levels of CP
decline levels of ATP get depleted.
The ATP/PC system fuels the first few seconds of exercise...after which
anaerobic glycolysis takes place... a buy product of glycolysis is
Lactic acid, which casues a build-up in the muscle cells of Hydrogen
ions (H+) raising the p.H.... Which affects the process that exposes
actin cross-bridging sites (troponin) and permit muscle contraction. ATP
formation is also affected.
calcium ions (Ca++) are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum by the
T tubules during muscle contraction and returned by the Ca-Pump.
Reduced sarcoplasmic Ca++ concentrations has been linked to fatigue.
Declines in force that can be produced have been linked to declined
levels of CA++ (Calcium ions). This is because decreased Ca++ released
reduces the number of actin/myosin cross-bridges that can be formed.
This is most likely to be due to impairement of the T-tubule. While
exercising potassium ions (K+)build up in the T-tubules, this is due to
the inability of the Na+K+ ATPase (breaks down ATP) Pump (sodium,
potassium atpase pump) to maintain the proper Na+/K+ balance at the
T-tubules. This affects the conduction of the action potential (these
cause movement to occur...like an electrical impulse) to the
sarcoplasmic reticulum, consequently Ca++ release is inhibited affecting
one's capacity to contract a muscle. lactic acid again builds yup here
and once again intracellular H+ concentrations increase, this then slows
the uptake of Ca++ by the sarcoplasmic reticulum, because the H+ affects
the pump. Therefore there is a marked reduction in levels of Ca++
As should be obviuos ATP is broken and provides the energy for
contraction (into ADP and Pi)this inorganic phosphate (Pi) builds up.
Increased Pi levels are thought to inhibit further cross-bridges being
formed between the filaments. As ATP is used to fuel the muscle
contraction, Pi is released from the myosin head. Increased
concentrations of Pi affects this from happening.


Date: 10/11/01 02:02 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: Intensity and Failure

That being said I can now continue...HIT popularized by Mike mentzer
(hope this doesnt open up the proverbial can of worms!)is based on the
premise that If you don't take your sets to failure, then you are not
presenting your body with the stimulus to adapt because you can
perform the appropriate amount of reps. Therefore as you take your
reps to failure, you are presenting the stimulus by forcing your body
to cope with something that it cannot do (remeber the original post!).
Consequently you adapt because you have forced yourself to do
something that it simply cannot do...seems logical and simple right!
But you have to ask yourself, why are so many powerlifters muscular if
they dont train to failure? as with olympic lifters!
...I take you back to the theory of rate coding..essentially you fail
in an exercise because there are not sufficiently rested muscle fibres
to perform the task...at the end of the set the only fibres that arent
fatigued are the low threshold high endurance motor units..which dont
have the neccessary force producing capabilities to perform the work.
I take you back now to the theory of supercompensation and the
subesequent breakdown and buildup theory that dictates that muscle
damage (catabolism) has to occur for the increase in proetin synthesis
to occur!...
...Research has shown that the most muscle damage occurs during the
negative paotion of the exercise (sarcomere popping!)...this is
because less muscle fibres are recruited to perform the eccentric
movemnt resulting in a greater stress on those fibres...consequently
by increasing the time that the muscle fibres are under tension (most
tension is generated during -ve portion) there in theory is a better
stimulus for muscle growth! ... from this it seems that more tension
can be generated by taking a set to failure than stopping short
because it would take longer to perform! keep this in mind!
...Back to rate coding (seems pretty important doesnt it?) as the
moment of failure draws closer the CNS will innervate all the motor
units it can to perform the reps and fire them as often as it
can...however as fatigue sets in there is a reduction in firing
frequency (up to around 70-80% I think!), consequently the rate of
twitching is not high enough to continue the exercise...thus failure
occurs.
...back to neural factors...as a nueron fires it has to release the
neurotransmitter Acetyl Choline so that the message can be
carried...as mentioned previoulsy the electrical current is passed
down the axon due to the na+ and K+ (when people refer to electrolites
in sports drinks like gatorad, lucozade, these is what they are
refering to), and the K+ Na+ atp ase pump... as failure approaches
(lack of firing) the electrolites become taxed...as failure occurs
these are virtually depleted...it is speculated that another of the
major factors in fatigue is the inability of the motor neurons to
create and release acetylcholine (ACh) fast enough so that
transmission of the action potential can be maintained from the neron
to the muscle...
It can be said that ability to produce force is dependant on power
speed and frequency of the 'electrical impulse elicited by the CNS to
contract a muscle...as fatigue develops there is a mared decrease in
the speed of these signals, as this occurs inhibitory mechanisms
(mentioned previuos) stop further contrcations occuring....
...However due to emotional factors lke psyching oneself up it is
possible to extend the time until these inhibitory mechanisms take
effect(fight or flight syndrome)...there is a ditinct relationship
between this and catecholamine levels...
...Therfore I hope that you can see that failure may not occur due to
the peripheral (muscle) factors but the Central ones...failure may not
be due to muscular fatigue but neural inhibition...the CNS does this
for one simple reason: SO THAT IT CAN REST AND RECOVER!
...If we are to believe the supercompensation theory muscle fibers
need to produce appropriate tension for a long enough period of time
to cause damage breakdown...this has the effect of growth factors to
be released in the cells Calcium levels within the cell must increase
toperpetuate both Catabolism and the required anabolic effect. Growth
stimuli may also be provided by the fatigue metabolites building up
(phosphate and hydrogen ions) due to elevated levels of lactic acid .
Please not that any of these reactions occurs because of muscular
failure!
It may become evident that failure is actaully detrimental (note to
John this would neccessiate the two factor theory, that has always
been rejected by bodybuilders) because too much stress occurs
(especially if inadequate rest intervals are used)...this would
facilitate the increasing levels of fatigue resulting in a faster
establishment of the Overtraining syndrome!
Probably the main point to take away from this is intensity and rest
should be monitored so to prevent the build up of fatigue and OTS
...Hope that wasnt too heavy I am drawing to a close soon on this
thread...It could keep going on forever...but I hope that at least its
made at least one person sit up and think about how they train and
that its not as simple as going into the gym and picking up a few
pieces of iron a few times....I hope you can bump this thread to keep
it active so that other people get to read it!


Date: 12/04/01 04:53 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: I'll restart then... (basically answering and providing extra info from here on

O.k Here I go again..I never realised that I was in demand LOL!!!
Some more info to chew over....I'll start with some basic scientifically
accpeted (I dont say proven becuase in science nothing is ever reall
solid fact!!!)...I'll update as often as possible so I wont force a load
of info down your throat on each post!!
This will all relate to hypertophy...yeah the nitty gritty!!!
factors affecting hypertophy!!!
...It seems pretty much solid that hypertophy is a form of
supercompensation as a result of the stimulus thats placed on the
musculature...theres like a million refernces for this...
I'll start with a few interesting facts that may make you sit up and
think a bit: during the average day the body turnsover (synthesis etc)
3-4 grmas of protein per KG of BW (Check out work by Balolgopal - sp???
and El-Khoury). Also, in the 'average' person muscle weighs 40-45% of
BW, (skeletal muscle = 50% of total protein)...Muslce is made up of
water and proteins in a ratio of around 4:1, 10kg of muscle = around 2kg
of protein!!!!!!!
Right then, if hypertophy is the response to stimuli, well this is based
on supercompensation as I maentioned a while back. If thats the case
then the growth is response to muscle breakdown/damage...when a muscle
fibe is overloaded it gets damaged particulalry during eccentric
contrcations...Muscle damage is massively mis understood, so I will
cover it in a bit of detail...
...the major molecular chnages that occur are purported to be due to
eccentric contractions (Protein syntheses etc)...
MUSCLE DAMAGE high tensile stress (as in eccentrcics) causes the weak
sarcomeres to pop, also leads to the adjacent sarcomeres to
pop...however this also affects the fibres metabolically: 1)Damages
Sarcoplasmic Reticulum, which may result in a loss of Calcium Iron
homestasis (Calcium helps fuel contrcations) and may result in a loss of
muscle fibres-yikes
2) Streaming, broadening and total disruption of the z bands
3) increase in temoperature of the muscle disrupting protein structures
Delayed onset muscle soreness... Causes: 1) connective tissue damage, 2)
muscle fibre shortening 3)Oedema Lasts - 24-48 hrs post exercise, fully
disappears by day 7
FORCE LOSS (of interest to the power guys!!!) for 3 days after intense
ex. there is an immediate devrease in max muscle force, why??? well
then: contractile element damage, altertaion in the sarcomere lengths
(results in less x bridges that can be formed) 3) Psychological effect
of pain and soreness...
This may not seem relevant to you at first but this pretty much
substantiates that intensity has to be monitored, you cant just go in an
train intense...plus it also makes me suspect that muscle growth isnt
just a result of increaased protein synthesis etc...
Ill leave this post here and continue on a new one...it gets more
physiological!!!

Date: 12/04/01 05:12 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: I'll restart then...

The responses from training are specific to the type of training
performed hence the specificity principle...
The adaptation of muscle dictates that specific proteins are degraded
and synthesised...myofibrillar proteins increase qite largely,
mitochondrial proteins increase with endurance training!!!
consequently the increase in intracellular aminos, particularly
myofibrillar with protein degredation helps to replace the high
turnover...
....Also, there maybe a possible migration of the ribosomes to the
areas that are most affected by the tyoe or training performed (to
utilse the degared proteins)...
applications...
Well then if we are to use the info posted we can see that hypertophy
is the result of poetine synthesis increases as a result of protein
degredation...which is caused by muscle damage...the most muscle is
damaged during eccentric exercise (more tension generated - because
less motor unites are used so there is greater stress ion the
individual fibres)...stretching has indeed been shown to help increae
hypertophy... consequently, for short term succes then there must be
sufficiebt stretch in the contrcatile elements (for facilitation of
muscle damamge), and tension...consequenlty, there should be an
emphasis on range of motion (to ensure stretch) and eccentric
contrcation (for tension)for protein sunthesis ....
Higher volumes of work appear to elicuit the best results (rep ranges
of 5-8 and 10-12), for multiple sets....refer to the intensity posts
for a review on optimal intenisty...
I will be covering the practical side to a geater extent, this is just
a taster!!! any questions...feel free to ask.


Date: 12/08/01 11:18 AM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

Sorry mate, been well busy as of late....
Time under tension specifically towards
hyertrophy...well this theory, popularised by
charles Poliquin and Ian King mainly, is
surprisingly simple to implement and
understand...yet will help produce good results..
...easy, if we rember that there is an inverse
relationship between a mucle fibres power producing
capacities and endurance capabilities then its
pretty obvious that there is a relationship between
time and optimal training... sets and reps take
place over time (well duhhh!!!) hopefully you will
see that it is more precise to relate load and time
together as opposed to load and reps/sets....
...counting reps may not actually be the indicator
of the amount of work that you have performed...if
anything reps are simply a marker or reference
point, if we look at the equation work = force x
distance...well a rep tells you that you've
performed work...but not how much...
...for instance, on the bench you've got an
indicidual who benches 300lbs for 5 reps, the
eccentric takes 2 seconds and the conecntric takes
1, there is no pause...conversley take another
exmaple of an indivdual who performs 300lbs for 5
reps however, his eccentric takes 5 seconds with a
one second pause at the bottom...concentric takes 3
seconds....who do you think has performed more work?
however they are both moving the same amount of
weight for the same amount of reps...also who will
have the better 1 rm and chest development
(hypothetically!!!)
...its pretty simple...also, think of kinetic energy
and momentum, during a fast eccentric you are
building up kinetic energy (Kinetic energy is energy
due to motion) which have a rebounbd effect meaning
that the momentum created by the fast eccentric
translates into an easier concentric....meaning that
more weight will be moved.....I refere you to the
concept of kinetic energy again, kinetic energy
increases due to an increase in accleration ie a
faster eccentric (momentum is the product of mass
and velocity, force mathematically can be
represented as a rate of change of momentum...as
momentum decreases so does velocity)...basically
what this means is that due to the decreases in
accelertion and momentum kinetic energy decreases
which means that it is harder to move an object...(I
hate kinematics!!!!!!)
in the previous example if individual no 2 were to
perform a set of 5 reps with a 2 second eccentric
and 1 second concentric then the amount of weight
that the individual will shift will be a lot more
than 300lbs.
...say someone performs a set of 10 with a speed of
3 secs per rep then the total TUT would be 30
seconds for that set...if an individual performed a
set of 5 with a 6 second speed, the TUT would be the
same....if strength improvements are to have occured
then the amount of time is a very important
factor... an increase in strength can only be
accurate if either the weight has increased with TUT
and reps the same... or if the load remains constant
and reps and TUT increased. But, if in a set TUT
(total not per rep) was the same, as does
load...however the reps increased then it may be
that an individual has actually regressed slightly
because per rep the amount of work performed hs
decreased to perform the rep....remeber the
accomodation principle mentioned a while ago....it
states that if a stimulus was to remain contant,
after initial adaptations accor then the amount of
gain declines over time....this is an example of
such....
...so then what is the optimal TUT... generally for
optimal muscle growth, a muscle should be under
tension for between 40 and 70
(approx)seconds....however this does not have to be
on a single set....
...absolute TUT is also a factor, so then 3 x 10
with a total TUT for the each set of 40 seconds
equals 120 seconds of total TUT, however 6 x 5 with
a TUT of 20 seconds for each set equals the same
absolute TUT of 120 seconds.
...Basically, monitor time, it can be extremeley
beneficial, by implementing a few of the ideas I
have mentioned here you add to the arsenal of
variety....periodise TUT like anything else!!!