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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

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  1. #71
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Kane Fan
    I know
    believe me I want to get one
    do you think I could substitue Deadlifts for Squats and SLDL for BLDL?
    I don't know what to tell you except that not being able to squat seriously compromises the effectiveness of any program. If I were you I'd learn how to power clean and do snatch/clean grip high pulls very quickly.

  2. #72
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Madcow2
    I don't know what to tell you except that not being able to squat seriously compromises the effectiveness of any program. If I were you I'd learn how to power clean and do snatch/clean grip high pulls very quickly.
    I've been wanting to get into powercleans
    didn't have a big interest in highpulls tho
    do you thnk I could trade regular squats for zercher squats?
    zerchers for me are well behind my regular squats tho...
    grrr!

  3. #73
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    It's like asking how one can use this workout using only a Bowflex. Squattiing is very fundemental to development. The nature of this program assumes one has access to squat stands, a bench, a barbell and some weight. This isn't exactly demanding in the way of exotic equipment. I can empathize with your predicament but you are effectively limited to pulling from the floor as your core fundemental exercise. or cleaning a weight and front squatting. I wish I could tell you something different since you have the desire and that's the most important part but unfortunately access to some basic equipment is also critical. You can certainly try to develop something on your own using the loading pattern or volume as a guide and try it.

  4. #74
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by mayhems
    i also heard that too much cardio can affect the muscle... in other words prevent bulk? and it which should i do the one u posted or meso or w/e that says low volume tris/abs and then wed bis/abs

    also what happens after the 8-10 period? start over? or switch up routines?
    You can do whatever you want after week 10. Many will take the weights/maxes from their previous cycle and repeat the program.

    Cardio is the near opposite stimuli to weight training and can use up the body's resources. A huge cardio emphasis will certainly hurt a pure bulking program but some basic exercise will not.

    As far as wanting a 5-6 day routine or spreading this program's volume out - it's not going to improve your gains or progress (some lifters who put up serious weight will spread the volume over a 4th day though as the weights can get too taxing - but we are talking about big lifts here and this likely applies to very few people here). There are better things one can do with time than spin ones wheels in the gym just to be there. A hobby or volunteering at a charity comes to mind as worthwhile ways to fill the day.

  5. #75
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    hmm i guess i can live with 3-4 days at the gym for 9-10 weeks at least.. but 1 thing i did everything i was suppose to do, but dont really feel sore? will it kick in after a few workouts or usually right away

    gotta love the good ol' sore test

  6. #76
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    also whats the wait period between sets? and is there a certain speed i should bring the bar down on bench? perhaps 2 secs. down 1 up? if possible.

  7. #77
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by mayhems
    also whats the wait period between sets? and is there a certain speed i should bring the bar down on bench? perhaps 2 secs. down 1 up? if possible.
    Don't fret about these details, they truly are irrelevant. The paradigm behind this program is that you basically manage yourself into overtraining for a month and then spend a month allowing your muscles to recover and grow while you gradually stress them and your CNS with a ever higher percentage of your maximal strength. The whole program is a really just a well-balanced framework for the dual-factor system.

    The first two weeks are all about acclimatizing yourself to the workout while putting yourself through the paces. In week three you should be working hard at weights which you can pretty much just manage for the required sets and reps. Take whatever rest and speed you need to get through the workout but don't be lazy. Week four should be the same as week three but with even higher, but still manageable, weight. Weeks 5 to 9 pretty much take care of themselves unless you take too big a leap in weight.

    Don't worry about not feeling sore for days at a time, either. I'm in week 8 of this routine and my legs have had a vague ache for over a month but I haven't otherwise felt particularly sore from the workouts. Soreness isn't any indication of a workout's effectiveness.

  8. #78
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    thanks alot man but you know where im coming from... most starter lifters think pain is gain, but my legs are actually kind of sore.. btw do u have a form of msn messenger or something i got some more questions to ask u

  9. #79
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Madcow2 - I think the program is excellent and will be starting in 4 weeks but one thing - in regard to 90 degree back pulls - would heavy cable rows (possibly with wide bar) not be a superior sub ?

  10. #80
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by mayhems
    thanks alot man but you know where im coming from... most starter lifters think pain is gain, but my legs are actually kind of sore.. btw do u have a form of msn messenger or something i got some more questions to ask u
    blut wump's answer is dead on. If it's any consolation I almost never get sore if I'm acclimated to training. Generally those getting sore train a body part with low frequency and high volume to failure. This gets you nice and sore but is dog shit for results over a period.

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