Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[blut wump]

There's an old-school adage: "You can't chisel it until you've grown it".

As madcow says, just grow the muscles; concentrate on the big, compound exercises and then worry about refining any slight assymetries or working for striations.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

It would critically fuck this entire program. The "pump" means about as much to your hypertrophy as the color of my 2nd dump last night. By moving to higher reps you are drastically changing the parameters of intensity (%1RM), and volume. Experiment after you get a good base and sound application of the existing program (that way when the results are harmed you notice it) or design a separate mesocycle 3:1 around higher reps.



Hmmm, the funniest thing is that most everyone has been surprised by their delt growth from doing no direct work of any kind other than just pressing overhead and rowing. Some have experienced the same for arms (at least those that have not included direct training and didn't have out of proportion development before beginning).

When people have asked to add something (as in one thing) it's generally not too much of a problem but when you start adding all kinds of crap it becomes an issue. Most of this stuff isn't worth the time it takes to do it. Better to get home faster so you can eat sooner. I'm not going to comment on shrugs on a calf machine but really, focus on increasing your core lifts.

From all the talk of high reps, pump, and these bullshit exercises it looks like you are trying to make this into a conventional BBing program. One of the reasons why it works is because it doesn't look like what most BBers do. Their programs are shit and through copious anabolics/anciliaries and genetics (part of which is the favorable response to meds taken) they've managed to succeed in spite of their training not because of it. Don't sweat the small stuff, get big and strong first and then worry about your deltoid balance or calf development. In the end, most find that without all the bullshit they grew fairly uniformly and symetrically without much in the way of isolation work at all. Concentrate on the 95% and spend time on the 5% on an "as needed" basis when the time comes.

well, that "how to work your chest" video just scared me a little... which is why im second guessing. i was pretty much trying to find a happy medium between some of the bb concepts and powerlifting concepts, since i figured your still using periodization and dual factor. guess not tho...

anyway, so no lateral raises?


also final thing and ill stop trying to fuck up the program...what about switching pullups with bb row, so id be doing 5x5 bb row on wednesday , and 1x5 and 5x5 pullups

 

[Guinness5.0]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

well, that "how to work your chest" video just scared me a little...

That thing is pure nonsense. It simply perpetuates more of the myths that run rampant in gyms everywhere. Think of that vid as a big stinking turd wrapped up in a nice box with a pretty bow on it.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

well, that "how to work your chest" video just scared me a little... which is why im second guessing. i was pretty much trying to find a happy medium between some of the bb concepts and powerlifting concepts, since i figured your still using periodization and dual factor. guess not tho...

I can make a nice piece presenting my theories on quantum physics too. It might even sound okay to the lay public (because I'm smooth like that ) but anyone with a bit of knowledge in the field would know I don't have a damn clue. It ranks up there with most BBing publications and pieces out there - utter trash bordering on ethical irresponsibility. Really, by Rippetoe's book at www.startingstrength.com or any of the following if you want to really learn about training and programming:

Supertraining
Science and Practice of Strength Training
A System of Multi Year Training in Weightlifting
Fundmentals of Special Strength Training in Sport
Managing the Training of Weightlifters

anyway, so no lateral raises?

I wouldn't waste my time or even an ounce of recovery on them unless there was some specific issue (meaning a problem or imbalance, they have no place in a general desire to gain size program). This stuff is right there with kickbacks. Your time is spent better doing rotator cuff work by a large margin.

also final thing and ill stop trying to fuck up the program...what about switching pullups with bb row, so id be doing 5x5 bb row on wednesday , and 1x5 and 5x5 pullups

First, if you think you'll get a wide back faster just forget about that.

Second, I'd be very leary of this. It can work but in the overwhelming majority of cases most people need rowing strength far more than they need pullup strength. A properly executed row is the same plane as the bench and too many people have rows that are far far weaker than their bench - this leads to imbalances and possible injury. Either way, I think you'd be disappointed in the results simply because rows are better at adding mass and activate the lats in a major way. Use the plain vanilla and save it for future experimentations (i.e. that way you'll know it doesn't work as well or in some case might be used to address something specific). Note: much of this future experimentation never gets done because people don't like screwing with it after they see how well it works.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I can make a nice piece presenting my theories on quantum physics too. It might even sound okay to the lay public (because I'm smooth like that ) but anyone with a bit of knowledge in the field would know I don't have a damn clue. It ranks up there with most BBing publications and pieces out there - utter trash bordering on ethical irresponsibility. Really, by Rippetoe's book at www.startingstrength.com or any of the following if you want to really learn about training and programming:

Supertraining
Science and Practice of Strength Training
A System of Multi Year Training in Weightlifting
Fundmentals of Special Strength Training in Sport
Managing the Training of Weightlifters




I wouldn't waste my time or even an ounce of recovery on them unless there was some specific issue (meaning a problem or imbalance, they have no place in a general desire to gain size program). This stuff is right there with kickbacks. Your time is spent better doing rotator cuff work by a large margin.




First, if you think you'll get a wide back faster just forget about that.

Second, I'd be very leary of this. It can work but in the overwhelming majority of cases most people need rowing strength far more than they need pullup strength. A properly executed row is the same plane as the bench and too many people have rows that are far far weaker than their bench - this leads to imbalances and possible injury. Either way, I think you'd be disappointed in the results simply because rows are better at adding mass and activate the lats in a major way. Use the plain vanilla and save it for future experimentations (i.e. that way you'll know it doesn't work as well or in some case might be used to address something specific). Note: much of this future experimentation never gets done because people don't like screwing with it after they see how well it works.

alright thanks alot for taking your time to address my questions with real reasons instead of brushing em off...

im not gunna touch it then, thanks again

 

[Sub-Zero]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

That thing is pure nonsense. It simply perpetuates more of the myths that run rampant in gyms everywhere. Think of that vid as a big stinking turd wrapped up in a nice box with a pretty bow on it.

thats what i thought, and alot of the big guys were saying, but then some of the others were saying stuff like "good video" and such

 

[blut wump]

Now you know which to listen to next time.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Mark Rippetoe Interview - Part I

For those that aren't familiar with him he owns the Wichita Falls Athletic Club where Glenn Pendlay trains the weightlifting team. Glenn has said he might be the best person in the country at putting muscle on novice lifters. Probably no surprise that Rippetoe has had the benefit of a lengthy relationship with Bill Starr and was heavily influenced by him.

Part I touches on training and squatting a bit but is mainly bio and overview. Part II next month will deal more with programming. If someone wanted to get a better idea on the squat progression there is a link in the table of contents where Pendlay summarizes the first 1-2 year progression. Rippetoe's new book is also available at www.startingstrength.com. It's geared mainly toward coaches teaching the lifts and programming for novices but no doubt more will come and many will find its comprehensive coverage of the lifts insightful and useful regardless of their own level of competency..

Part I is here:
http://www.readthecore.com/200507/trenches.htm

 

[TheOak84]

is there a book that focuses on diets for bulking?

i read that link, and im interested in trying to down a gallon of milk a day... which is about 3 glasses per meal (based on 5 meals). which doesnt seem too bad.

ill prolly start with 1/2 gallon.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Why would you bother trying to down a gallon of milk in a day?

EDIT: Read the link. Great, he can down a gallon of milk in fifteen minutes. What a wonderful feat. I'm sure the guy knows his stuff, but that was a pretty stupid thing to throw in there, as if it makes him special.

"Holy crap, did you see that!? 16 glasses of milk in fifteen minutes! That's more than a glass a minute! We should totally listen to him!"