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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

Read more or register here to join the discussion below...

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  1. #501
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    can't wait!!!

  2. #502
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Thanks alot madcow for answering my questions.

    I've made some changes to my diet.

    Here's what I eat....

    Breakfast:
    4 hard boiled eggs (whole)
    2 toasts with honey
    1 glass of milk

    2-3 hours later...
    500ml of milk with whey protein

    Lunch:
    Varies but I make sure to get somewhere near 40g of animal proteins

    Diner
    Varies but I make sure to get somewhere near 40g of animal proteins

    2-3 hours later...
    500ml of milk with whey protein


    Im 23yo, 6'3 200lbs at about 14% bodyfat.

    Do you think this diet is enough for me?

    (I don't have time or ressources to take 6 small meals a day)


    Thanks

  3. #503
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    You missed the golden window - post #498 is the last post I'm ever touching on diet. I have enough to worry about handling the other stuff to get mired in that muck. It's good enough if it is balanced and creates caloric excess. If you continue training and don't gain muscle or fat, you need more. You can estimate your caloric requirements to a degree and then add up everything you eat but it's still an estimate and not based on your activity level and other factors. I don't mean to be a pain or anything but the absolute last thing I want to do is talk about diet. I don't get any enjoyment or fulfillment out of it.

  4. #504
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Question:
    Im doing the full 9 weeks of the program, im in week 7 now. Once the cycle is over you think it's ok to play around with loading and unloading and see what works, just experiment you know? Say once the last week of the intensity phase is over then deload again, then load say for 3 weeks then deload then load for 3 weeks then deload then maybe hit the intensity phase. So instead of it being a 9 week program it extends it to 12 weeks. 2 3 week periods of load, 2 weeks of deloading, then say 4 weeks of intensity. Really enjoy this program and i know the way it's set up is tried and true but i guess you never know what could happen good or bad from a little tweaking. Thanx.

  5. #505
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    I'd say it's more than merely OK: it's a responsibility to yourself as your own coach to learn what you can tolerate and what works best for you.

    If you keep reporting back with how you're progressing then you should be fine. You might find that people here recognize symptoms of loading, overtraining or undertraining faster than you do yourself.

  6. #506
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by Topside
    Question:
    Im doing the full 9 weeks of the program, im in week 7 now. Once the cycle is over you think it's ok to play around with loading and unloading and see what works, just experiment you know? Say once the last week of the intensity phase is over then deload again, then load say for 3 weeks then deload then load for 3 weeks then deload then maybe hit the intensity phase. So instead of it being a 9 week program it extends it to 12 weeks. 2 3 week periods of load, 2 weeks of deloading, then say 4 weeks of intensity. Really enjoy this program and i know the way it's set up is tried and true but i guess you never know what could happen good or bad from a little tweaking. Thanx.
    What I would suggest is to plan it out completely first. Give a read to the Dual Factor Hypertrophy Program a few pages back - page 22 or just download the full Word doc here: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...y_Training.doc

    Also read over this dual factor description: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showp...48&postcount=3 you are going to see how this can be laid out more as a longer term plan. You can have periods of relative loading and deloading over years (i.e. 3/1 for the Olympics), it goes into some detail about month to month stuff - I think it uses the Greeks or Bulgarians as an example so don't just think you can load as hard as they do - if you saw their volumes and frequencies you wouldn't believe it.

    Also make sure you've read this: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=186

    So basically, take what you've learned from the 5x5, read DFHT training because there's some good stuff in there that you might want to implement and it's a bit more in depth, read over the links on laying out longer term programs and build something accordingly. You have the advantage of flexability because you aren't training for an event on any special date so just lay it out, use it as a guide, and deviate when necessary.

  7. #507
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    thanx for the info. I'm an exercise physiology major so i love reading and learning about this stuff, and the best part is im my own living breathing experiment. Got some reading to do.

  8. #508
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    My chest responds very well to intensity and volume.

    Is it okay to do 5x5 2 times a week instead 1x5 and 5x5? I feel like I could handle more.

    I used to workout my chest 3x a week (before 5x5) and got really good results from it.


    Yours in sweat&iron!

    Santa

  9. #509
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    When you add volume, you don't just impact a single muscle or muscle group. This increases the load on the entire body. Now, in my program description linked in the TOC (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=381) I do say that for more advanced trainees you can transition the 1x5 to 5x5. Doing it for chest is going to be less taxing than doing it for the entire slew of exercises (thinking the squat mainly and then adding in 5x5 for the rows) so it's something to consider just doing one.

    All that said, you really should have a good foundation first and you can't do this midway through the program because it screws with the volume a bit. Your strength is obviously increasing pretty quickly, it's tough to make an argument that you require more volume when your bench is shooting up like this. The issue you are having with your chest is that the flat bench was not a core lift and lagged some of your other work, most noticably your dip. So when you dropped everything and went with a program that focused heavily on bench, even though you are getting better fast, you've had to take a step backward. I gave a pretty detailed analysis here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=478

    This will resolve itself fairly quickly but like I said, it's really hard to make the case that you require more volume when your bench is shooting up like that in 3 weeks - something is obviously working and working well. The strength increase is all you can control, size will come with strength and increased capacity over a decent rep/set range. You are doing that now but you are paying the price for having a weak realtive bench and over-relying on the dip. I guess you could have run this cycle with dips and not bench but you can't do less than bodyweight so it causes issues and it's not as good of a movement IMO but that's not too important.

    My best advice is to be patient, don't screw with it and finish it out. You'll have a solid bench at that point. Run a 4 week program and incorporate your dips or whatever (you'll find a lot more parity between your dip and bench power after this cycle) then step back into a longer foundation style program like this one and work hard for a period.

  10. #510
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by Madcow2
    When you add volume, you don't just impact a single muscle or muscle group. This increases the load on the entire body. Now, in my program description linked in the TOC (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=381) I do say that for more advanced trainees you can transition the 1x5 to 5x5. Doing it for chest is going to be less taxing than doing it for the entire slew of exercises (thinking the squat mainly and then adding in 5x5 for the rows) so it's something to consider just doing one.

    All that said, you really should have a good foundation first and you can't do this midway through the program because it screws with the volume a bit. Your strength is obviously increasing pretty quickly, it's tough to make an argument that you require more volume when your bench is shooting up like this. The issue you are having with your chest is that the flat bench was not a core lift and lagged some of your other work, most noticably your dip. So when you dropped everything and went with a program that focused heavily on bench, even though you are getting better fast, you've had to take a step backward. I gave a pretty detailed analysis here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=478

    This will resolve itself fairly quickly but like I said, it's really hard to make the case that you require more volume when your bench is shooting up like that in 3 weeks - something is obviously working and working well. The strength increase is all you can control, size will come with strength and increased capacity over a decent rep/set range. You are doing that now but you are paying the price for having a weak realtive bench and over-relying on the dip. I guess you could have run this cycle with dips and not bench but you can't do less than bodyweight so it causes issues and it's not as good of a movement IMO but that's not too important.

    My best advice is to be patient, don't screw with it and finish it out. You'll have a solid bench at that point. Run a 4 week program and incorporate your dips or whatever (you'll find a lot more parity between your dip and bench power after this cycle) then step back into a longer foundation style program like this one and work hard for a period.
    A-Ok, Thanks Madcow!


    It's really amazing though. I never imagined that my bench would beat my squat. (Admitedly, before 5x5, my only leg workout were parallel squats once a week)

    I've always had a BIG ass, long legs and big hips (they called me sweet hips when I was in boarding school ). Yet the squat is my weakest lift.

    I have really long arms and small girly wrists yet my bench will soon become better than my squat. It's just weird.

    Again, thanks for pulling me out of the dark ages of weightlifting.

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