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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

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  1. #41
    Freak ghettostudmuffin's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    My final question madcow2.

    After you finish the 4 week intensity phase of this cycle, can you immediately start the next cycle at 5x5 or do you need to take a deloading week before starting the 5x5 again?

  2. #42
    A 'HALO' over my head... BionicBC's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Kane Fan
    it dosn't seem simple to me!
    what % of 1RM do you usually use for 5x5's?
    80-85?
    I had to play with the weight to find out what worked for me-The imposrtant thing he stressed to me is to MAKE SURE you choose a weight where you can complete all 5 sets for 5 reps, but not TOO easy-you need to be pushing yourself. Finding that balance takes a minute. Im in week 5 now (deloading phase), ill tell you one thing, the first 4 weeks were TOUGH.
    Bionic

  3. #43
    A 'HALO' over my head... BionicBC's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Kane Fan
    it dosn't seem simple to me!
    what % of 1RM do you usually use for 5x5's?
    80-85?
    I had to play with the weight to find out what worked for me-The imposrtant thing he stressed to me is to MAKE SURE you choose a weight where you can complete all 5 sets for 5 reps, but not TOO easy-you need to be pushing yourself. Finding that balance takes a minute. Im in week 5 now (deloading phase), ill tell you one thing, the first 4 weeks were TOUGH.
    Bionic

  4. #44
    Banned JKurz1's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Can you incorporate this into a 5 day split?

    What are the goals from this routine? Seems like mainly strength and power, with little emphasis on the bb physique, no?

    I've found the best method is wk 1 sets of 12-10
    wk 2 8-10
    wk 3 6-8
    repeat

    that way your body doesnt adapt to lifting to its max every week....this is where growth occurs.........

  5. #45
    A 'HALO' over my head... BionicBC's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by JKurz1
    Can you incorporate this into a 5 day split?

    What are the goals from this routine? Seems like mainly strength and power, with little emphasis on the bb physique, no?

    I've found the best method is wk 1 sets of 12-10
    wk 2 8-10
    wk 3 6-8
    repeat

    that way your body doesnt adapt to lifting to its max every week....this is where growth occurs.........
    Yea, I know the "common" belief for growth is to stay in the 8-12 rep range, and less than that is more for strenght. Although this program is, i believe, a strenght training program in essence, from what MadCow tells me its also very good at adding Lean Body Mass too... Even if it adds more strenght than mass, that means that AFTER these 10 weeks, i should be lifting weights in the 8-12 rep range with LARGER weights, which will in result add MORE mass, no?
    Bionic

  6. #46
    Olympian
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by GhettoStudMuffin
    My final question madcow2.

    After you finish the 4 week intensity phase of this cycle, can you immediately start the next cycle at 5x5 or do you need to take a deloading week before starting the 5x5 again?
    You should do the deloading week and then the 3x3 phase as listed - afterwhich you can then immediately commence with a new 5x5 volume phase.

  7. #47
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by BionicBC
    I had to play with the weight to find out what worked for me-The imposrtant thing he stressed to me is to MAKE SURE you choose a weight where you can complete all 5 sets for 5 reps, but not TOO easy-you need to be pushing yourself. Finding that balance takes a minute. Im in week 5 now (deloading phase), ill tell you one thing, the first 4 weeks were TOUGH.
    Bionic
    Just make sure the weights are progressing upward. Week 1 and 2 should scale up to week 3 which ideally should be record lifts and week 4 should be another increment above that. This is hard to peg correctly the first time but after you've established your maxes it's fairly easy to narrow down. Novices starting very light might need 6 weeks total with 4 weeks of scaling. The most common mistake is that people start too heavy and can't ramp the weights adequately over the period.

  8. #48
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by JKurz1
    Can you incorporate this into a 5 day split?

    What are the goals from this routine? Seems like mainly strength and power, with little emphasis on the bb physique, no?

    I've found the best method is wk 1 sets of 12-10
    wk 2 8-10
    wk 3 6-8
    repeat

    that way your body doesnt adapt to lifting to its max every week....this is where growth occurs.........
    This program causes an absolute ton of hypertrophy - so much so that it is avoided by athletes at the top of weight classes because it forces severe dietary restriction. I've never really seen anything grow people better or more consistently.

    BBing is no different than anything else. Your physique will almost totally be driven by progress in the compound lifts. If you can't build an impressive physique out of deads, squats, rows, presses, and chins then it's just not going to happen anyway. Most BBers are more concerned with adding muscle than working on detail so once one gets big enough one can periodically put some work into rebalancing physique imperfections. Most guys seem to be more in a hurry to get big and add another 20lbs of LBM rather than aesthetically rebalance something.

    This program results in a very solid strength and power foundation for athletics as well as a massive amount of hypertrophy which makes it fairly ideal for adding LBM to an athlete or a BBer. For athletics it's probably more advantageous to substitute dynamic pulling into the regimine as this version is more suited to BBers who generally are unfamiliar with the olympic lifts and their variations.

    I've also noticed the overwhelming desire for BBer to fuck with this program. Its variations have been in use for over 30 years. This program has been used with huge success by a large number and very broad range of athletes over this time and is still currently in heavy use. Bill Starr was one of the best strength and conditioning coaches who every lived (this job includes bulking and adding LBM to athletes in a time constrained environment). This particular variation was drawn up by someone who is currently one of the best strength coaches on the planet. Typically a BBer attempting to screw with this program is the equivalent of Sesame Street's Elmo offering neurosurgery advice at NYU. You simply aren't going to eek any more mass out of this program and the vast majority of changes people wish to make will compromise it to a large degree. Those who have been through it end up not wanting to change much of anything once they see how effective it is. Those who know enough to properly alter the protocols and adjust the loading/deloading parameters are generally ones who don't find much to change.
    Last edited by Madcow2; 25-Feb-2005 at 01:08 PM.

  9. #49
    Amateur Bodybuilder Carl Carlson's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Hopefully my last question....

    Let's say Monday I'm using 225 for my Squats 5x5.

    Do I use 225 on Friday for my Squats 1x5?

  10. #50
    A 'HALO' over my head... BionicBC's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Carl Carlson
    Hopefully my last question....

    Let's say Monday I'm using 225 for my Squats 5x5.

    Do I use 225 on Friday for my Squats 1x5?
    No, youd use a higher weight for your MAIN set, but make sure you still get your 5 sets in. Maybe something like this:
    135 x 5
    175 x 5
    205 x 5
    225 x 5
    265 x 5
    Im not saying use these weights, but you get the idea-this is more or less how you do it.
    Bionic

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