Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Slyder190]

So should I just add the squats back in the final week next week? I hear ya on diet. I was taking in enough to maintain my weight even prior to doing this progam so I wanted to test the waters and see how resonded to new stimuli first before upping the calories. Summer is coming anyway, so it's just as well. I do have a one day where ieat whatever I want all day and I do put away a lot on that day. I may also add one cheat meal somewhere esle during the week. (Did this after I started the program). I do also do cardio2-3x a week also. I aim for 3 days, but the last few weeks I've had a busy schedule.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I know I'm not supposed to change anything, but if I wanted develop my deadlift more, could I change around the squat and DL next cycle?

So it would be:

Monday
DL
Bench
Row

Wed
Light DL
Squat
Pull-up
Mil Press

Fri
DL
Bench
Row

How about it? Too much back work?

Actually you can't. The deadlift is just too taxing for most people to do this with. Read this: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4783202&postcount=388
Then you might want to substitute clean pulls for your bent rows on M/F. There are links in the first post of this thread to exercise descriptions and videos. In there you will find a high pull video and a clean pull video I believe. A clean pull is just an explosive high pull that culminates in a big shrug at the top.

EDIT - I will throw in the caveate that this can work for some people in some circumstances. Mainly a newer lifter not lifting much weight, being very well conditioned and not being weak in the lower back at all. That's a pretty small subsection of people there and really you are best off just learning some different types of pulls rather than pulling pure deads all the time. There is Stephen Korte's 3x3 program in the archives at www.deepsquatter.com. It's purely bench, squat, and dead done 3x per week arranged somewhat similar to this program with volume/intensity type phases (loading/deloading). You'll probably have to read all the articles although they are fairly similar but it works well, just a real bear of a program.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

So should I just add the squats back in the final week next week? I hear ya on diet. I was taking in enough to maintain my weight even prior to doing this progam so I wanted to test the waters and see how resonded to new stimuli first before upping the calories. Summer is coming anyway, so it's just as well. I do have a one day where ieat whatever I want all day and I do put away a lot on that day. I may also add one cheat meal somewhere esle during the week. (Did this after I started the program). I do also do cardio2-3x a week also. I aim for 3 days, but the last few weeks I've had a busy schedule.

Yeah - add the squats back. The thing with the one day cheat meal is that your body is a reflection of your diet over time so it's something of an average of your total intake. A cheat day a week becomes the average for your weekly intake. To be honest though, either add just a bit each day or just keep pounding the weights and don't worry about it. When you add the calories, you will see the muscle.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Im currently doing the single factor (n00b ) one and Im having trouble setting the top 5rep weights for the Wed (light day) workout. How much %of my 5RM should the weights be? Should I add weights on this day everyweek just like I do on Mon and Fri?

I've also added 2 sets of non failure bodyweight pull ups after Mon and Fri workout.

Tell me what exactly you are missing in this:

* On light day, Squat the first 3 sets of 5 just as you did on Monday, and then do a fourth set of 5 with the weight used on the third set. An extra fifth set at this same weight can be added. Incline bench is done using the same scheme, working up to 2-3 sets of 5, but with about 70-80% of the weight flat bench, to accommodate the leverage difference of the incline. High Pulls are done by feel, but usually pretty heavy.

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something here.

 

[harhar]

The overheadpress (replace incline) and the deadlift (replace highpulls).

So overhead press is lower than bench due to leverage but high enough to be a 5RM? And deads are supposed to be heavy but how much?

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

The overheadpress (replace incline) and the deadlift (replace highpulls).

So overhead press is lower than bench due to leverage but high enough to be a 5RM? And deads are supposed to be heavy but how much?

I see what you are saying. I'd have to say just go by feel. Hopefully if you are using this program you arne't hoisting major tonnage here but just train each fairly heavy. See if this impacts your other workouts or not. If it has a negative impact on Friday pressing or squatting post back and let me know but most people should be okay for a while.

EDIT - I will add, try to make progress over time and consistently add weight to the bar in each exercise.

 

[super_rice]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

When you add the calories, you will see the muscle.

this, combined with the proper stimulus (the 5x5), is all that what madcow has said it would be.

when i was smaller, in the 155s range, i thought i was going to be stuck there forever. i just wanted to get stronger, so badly. wasn't happening, i was working hard, deadlifting, squatting, benching.. there was a point where i dropped benching completely, i didn't bench for 2-3 months. i only did deadlifts, squats, and chinups. it worked for a while, then it stopped. i never got heavier, but i got stronger - until that stopped too.

i really thought i was stuck.

however, i was introduced to the whole concept of loading phases and such and in 1.5 cycles, i've gained 20lbs. i've actually begun to think of ways of how to keep my weight down in the future.

truly, if you face the music (to all the people that think they are "hardgainers" like i did) and just lift smart, lift heavy, then eat lots (in that order) you will have to fight the weight off.

 

[Slyder190]

Madcow, I'm still stuck on 3 things. Can this program be repeated a few times to keep yielding results?

And, I guessed some of my maxes a bit (mostly 5x5 maxes). I have was going up 5% each week in the weights being used and in the lasty week (week 5), I jumped the weights a bit more than this as at week 4 at 95% of my 1rm and 5x5rm I was getting the weights rather easily so I made a bigger weight increase.

And finally, you say we should be breaking records in weeks 3 and 4 (if doing 4 weeks volume), does this imply that in week 3 we should be hittinf weights above our original maxes and that in week 4, we should be beating the pr from week 3?

Thanks.

 

[Slyder190]

Madcow? He's around here somewhere.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow, I'm still stuck on 3 things. Can this program be repeated a few times to keep yielding results?

Sure, it's periodized and people have no problem running it back to back. That said, what you really want to be doing at some point is figuring out where your weak links are and striving to improve upon them. Maybe this is a customized 9 week program with 2 phases. Maybe it's 4 weeks. You might find this topic from the table of contents a good read on how to organize your training over longer periods. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4643459&postcount=186

All that said, if you are getting consistently good results and don't seem to be stagnating anywhere - maybe it's best to continue plain vanila for a while rather than monkey with things too much.

And, I guessed some of my maxes a bit (mostly 5x5 maxes). I have was going up 5% each week in the weights being used and in the lasty week (week 5), I jumped the weights a bit more than this as at week 4 at 95% of my 1rm and 5x5rm I was getting the weights rather easily so I made a bigger weight increase.

Guessing and getting stronger within the volume phase is fairly typical for lifters who are new to this style of program and the really beneficial stimulus of concentrating on improving in a limited amount of very effective lifts and not using a 1x per week frequency. It makes your target weights move and it can be tough to bogey on the fly. That said, it "ain't rocket science" so just do what you did, pay attention and adjust accordingly. It would be a shitty program if you had to nail everything perfectly to see results. This is also why I haven't provided a % guide. The population of people using it is too broad, people need to learn for themselves and they won't pay as much attention and just follow the "plan" week to week thus not learning 1/2 as much about tailoring programs for their own tolerances.

Also, as you get used to programs like this, you won't be seeing intra-loading period progress like this. It will show up more and more in the intensity period as your body recovers from the loading.

And finally, you say we should be breaking records in weeks 3 and 4 (if doing 4 weeks volume), does this imply that in week 3 we should be hittinf weights above our original maxes and that in week 4, we should be beating the pr from week 3?
Thanks.

Ideally, yes but there has to be some flexability. If you are very experienced and have current relevant maxes setting it up this way will work fine. You could also take your previous records, put them at week 3 and exceed at week 4. Some people might also require more time to build up to a few weeks of heavy loading, some less. People new to this generally start light getting pretty close to their records on week 3 and then exceeding on week 4. More experience lets you equal or exceed on week 3 with little issue of weights moving around. Some people might also find they can load heavy for 3 weeks - most can't but there are certainly some that do in the world although they tend to be very experienced.

So for your purposes and running a second cycle back-to-back, take your previous records in each lift and put them at the first week of loading (week 3). Obviously, if the 3x3 phase made you a lot stronger this might need to be adjusted.