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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

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  1. #141
    Banned JKurz1's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Karma - thanks for posting.........although a tad confusing since you started in wk 4 and the weights and reps don't exactly follow the set-up, but a nice tool none the less.....anyone else?

  2. #142
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    i started posting in week 3 or 4, but did the whole thing.

    the weights were botched initially (too much volume), but if you go through it, it's proper. complete with videos and all.

    why don't you just try it and experiment for yourself? it's not a paticularly hard program, and you definately do a lot less than your 6 day per week type stuff

  3. #143
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by JKurz1
    Karma - thanks for posting.........although a tad confusing since you started in wk 4 and the weights and reps don't exactly follow the set-up, but a nice tool none the less.....anyone else?
    blut wump's journal is post #125 on the previous page.

    The program itself is very straightforward. The biggest issue for most people is setting the weights to arrive at records the final 2 weeks of the volume phase (the intensity phase is a bit easier to set because at least you have a basis from the volume). For the initial run through it's better to be conservative as too much too soon will prevent you from ramping and kill the program whereas a conservative approach will not be optimal but will at least allow you to get a solid amount of gains and provide a future reference.

    You can either start very light and run for 6 weeks to records in weeks 5/6 or start moderate and run 4 weeks to records in weeks 3/4. For first timers starting conservantively the record weeks tend to be a bit less than all out 100% records simply due to not having a good reference point.

    As far as results, this workout is the closest thing to a sure thing I've found. There is simply no one who doesn't get a lot stronger and add significant LBM (the amount of people who have used this program over the years is staggering and it is still being used along with variations by athletes at the highest levels - albeit mostly as an offseason program). It is so successful at generating hypertrophy that many athletes are forced to avoid it. I ran this program a few years ago (substituting highpulls for deads was the only exception but sets/reps were exactly as the first post in this thread reads) and was forced to ramp back my calorie intake not once but twice over the weeks and the gains still kept comming - and I didn't increase my calories for this program beforehand so I was basically forced to run in a moderate deficit mode by the final weeks. I believe I netted somewhere around 8-10lbs and this is someone purposely trying to keep their weight under control and keep any weight fluctuations closer to the 5lbs range.

    If setting the weights is a big issue you could always test out your best set of 5 in each exercise (over the span of a week - don't worry too much about chins but the squat/bench/row/dead/military) and then back off 10-20% for a 5x5 record weight. Put these weights at week 3, plan to exceed them on week 4. Start significantly before target weight so using 300 for 5x5 on week 3 as a target you might start at 245, 280, 300, 315 for weeks 1,2,3,4 respectively. You can adjust as you go if you feel the upcoming weight in the next workout is going to be too heavy or too light. It's really simple once you get going but the fact that most people don't have relevant weights to apply to the program causes some anxiety but not to worry.
    Last edited by Madcow2; 13-Mar-2005 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    What would happen if you ran this program while dieting?

  5. #145
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Monday
    Squats 5x5
    Bench 1x5
    Bar Row 1x5

    Wednesday
    Light Squats 5x5
    Deadlift 5x5
    Smith Seated Shoulder Press 5x5

    Friday
    Squats 1x5
    Bench 5x5
    Bar Row 5x5


    ok..then using the above program......day 1, is that 7 sets total?

    Same weight for each set of 5 and increase it the following week? For example - Is this it?

    Squats - 315x5 for 5 sets?
    Bench - 1 set of 315 for 5?
    Bar Baell Rows - 1 set of 185 for 5?

    wouldnt this routine take you all of 20-30 minutes?

    Include Deads on Wed, are we just doing 4 exercises a week, well 5 including standing o/h press? 7 sets each day? That will sum up my ?s......

  6. #146
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by psychedout
    What would happen if you ran this program while dieting?
    Unless your diet is severe or you are already ultralean and eating below maintenance you will likely still gain LBM. Strength gains will come regardless.

    Here is what the JohnSmith182 (who adapted the Bill Starr program) had to say:

    Also i have used this program VERY often with athletes and it IS result producing. However many of your gains will show up after you use it for 4-6 weeks and you switch to training a bit less frequently and lower the reps and volume. However this is one program i have had a LOT of success with. In fact i rarely if ever use it with athletes who are at the top of their weight class because it causes too much weight gain unless you severely restrict your food.

  7. #147
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Hypothetically, lets say you add 40mg of var to the mix, and 300 grams of protein per day? Would this be the best thing that ever could happen?

  8. #148
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    Quote Quote posted by JKurz1
    Monday
    Squats 5x5
    Bench 1x5
    Bar Row 1x5

    Wednesday
    Light Squats 5x5
    Deadlift 5x5
    Smith Seated Shoulder Press 5x5

    Friday
    Squats 1x5
    Bench 5x5
    Bar Row 5x5


    ok..then using the above program......day 1, is that 7 sets total?

    Same weight for each set of 5 and increase it the following week? For example - Is this it?

    Squats - 315x5 for 5 sets?
    Bench - 1 set of 315 for 5?
    Bar Baell Rows - 1 set of 185 for 5?

    wouldnt this routine take you all of 20-30 minutes?

    Include Deads on Wed, are we just doing 4 exercises a week, well 5 including standing o/h press? 7 sets each day? That will sum up my ?s......
    5x5 (or 3x3) is with a working set weight so warm up and perform all 5 sets of 5 with a target weight.

    1x5 (or 1x3) the target is a single set of 5 with a target weight but you want to pyramid up making a total of 5 sets of 5 (just with the top one being the target). This is particularly important in the volume phase as you want to make sure you get all your volume. Those with a higher capacity for workload can handle a series of heavier weights in the pyramid. Start modestly your first time - meaning if your target weight for the set is 300 don't go 260, 270, 280, 290 .

    Wednesday squat workout is 5x5 based off Monday's working weight. Generally it's 10-20% range but be conservative and don't increase it over the cycle as much as Monday's so the % may begin at 12% or whatever and drift down to 20% or even less over the phase.

    There are also 3 separate accounts of this program on page 1. Mine, Animalmass's and JS182's. There are a lot of tips to get the most out of it too but between 3 accounts from 3 people you can get a lot of good info out of it. I really suggest giving them all a careful read as there are some really good points in each of them that aren't in the others or are worded possibly less clearly.

  9. #149
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    i dont know how you can squat 5x5 with a near max weight in 20 minutes if you are truly squatting to near max there is no way you can do it in 20 mins..when i squat on ME day i take upwards of close to 10 minutes between sets it makes a huge difference in the amount of weight you can lift

    Im not sure if this pertains to this program, if my remarks are of base for this Madcow just say so lol but i would think one needs to get out of the mentality of of rushing through sets with a time goal...every felx article tells you you should be done in 45 minutes

  10. #150
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    I gotta agree with wnt2bBeast on the rest time.

    I don't count how long I rest between sets, but for squats it's definitely over 5 minutes. Deads are a little less and bench too.

    I'm in the gym for probably 1.5 hours on average doing this 5x5 program. I could cut the rest time down, but that would significantly hamper how much weight I could use and I'm not lifting to build up my cardio.

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