Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Czar87]

I have a week to go when i cant touch the barbell, but i wanna start 5x5 again as soon as i can.

What should i do so i dont run to this error anymore ( last time i overtrained m ligaments, all of them). Last time i did advanced version, so i go linear version this time =) but how do i avoid injury this time or should i do some other program

i have only trained for 6 months

=)


In linear version everything is the same as the advance version except the reps ? 4 veeks of load/volume, 1 deloead and 4 intensity phase right ?

 

[Madcow2]

Wow - yeah, overuse injuries are pretty bad. This program can be particularly bad for people in that they are not used to this type of frequency or workload in the core lifts, they are not used to the core lifts, and compound both of those with the fact that this program gets people stronger fairly quickly and lets them use loads that make it worse.

I still have to alter the advanced program description. Probably will do that sooner rather than later.

My advice would be to go here: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm, read the description very carefully, and download the excel template. Do not begin the program right away but spend some time getting back in the gym and doing the lifts. Build up slowly to give the body a chance to get accustomed to everything. When you are good on the lifts and have some training under your belt to where you are confident that you can handle reasonable volume again, go ahead and start it.

 

[mojaz87]

Question for Madcow

Hey Madcow,

I sent you a PM recently regarding training and specifically the Starr 5x5 routine. In it I included a preparation workout I would like to do before I start the 5x5 in the summer. I realize you must be very busy, but I am just wondering if you received the message. I appreciate the time you put into answering everyone's questions not only in this thread, but also in many others. Keep up the good work!

 

[anotherbutters]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

There are plenty of other people willing to help on here. What was the prep work you were thinking of?

 

[mojaz87]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

anotherbutters,

First and foremost, I apologize. I didn't mean what I said as if I was not seeking advice from others such as yourself. The reason I had asked Madcow first was because I had been referred to his site on geocities.com with the Linear and Dual Factor versions of the Starr 5x5, so it he seemed like the right person to as k. The prep work I'm looking to do is for a period of about five weeks. My main goals during this period of time are: 1) Practice the deadlift (I just did it today for the first time) 2) Perform exercises to strengthen the posterior chain 3) Improve the bench press by adding some variety to my benching workouts. I have been fortunate enough to have been coached well in the squat and so that part of the 5x5 does not worry me other than the fact that there is such a high volume of squats (I hope I'm prepared for that!). Well, enough said, here is the proposed workout. I am not totally sure about the rep schemes for all the exercises as I have mentioned below:

Monday:

1) Bench Press (6 sets x 3 reps) building up to a max triple, or at least a strong triple - I have never tried this method of low reps and high sets, usually I have strictly followed the very linear method of 10-8-6-4-2, and variations of that.

2) Squats (I am on a 12 week program that I still have 6 weeks to go on, so I will be focusing on finishing that up. The workout is very linear and thus far very effective. I am projected to make a 30 pound increase in my max over the 12 weeks).

3) Incline DB Press (2 sets of 10 ?) - Not sure about the reps, but I just want to hit the chest in a different way considering I was doing decline stuff during my current cycle. Also to improve stabilizing muscle strength.

4) Glute Ham Raises (4 x 8) - We do not have the professional bench for these at our school's gym, but I have done these with a partner laying on a desk with my hips over the edge and the partner holding my ankles down and it is pretty effective)

5) Weighted pull-ups (3 x 8) - Upper back/ lat work.

6) Low squat jumps to lunge (3 sets of 45 seconds, lunging every 3-5 seconds) - work on explosiveness, a little conditioning at the end of the workout, and get the hip flexors going.

Wednesday

1) Deadlift (8-6-3-3-1-1) - Not sure about the rep scheme. I want to be able to lift heavy, but I also want to get in some much needed practice before the 5x5.

2) Rack lockouts - I want to work in some variety to my benching routines to try and strengthen different parts of the lift, as wells as my tri's. Lately I've been stuck at the 225 rut, and sometimes I can't even get that. It's REAL frustrating considering I just did it on decline 2 days ago and I still had room to increase the weight.

3) Pull throughs (3 x 10) - Work on that posterior chain, and exploding for the deadlift.

4) Barbell Rows (8-6-4-2) - I want to use the "2nd method" outlined underneath your generic 90 degree method. I think they were called Pendlay (sp?) rows. I intend to stop the weight on the floor for each rep as recommended.

5) Chin-ups - Work on some "functional" strength, and help build up the grip hopefully

6) Reverse barbell lunges with one leg elevated (2-3 sets of 10) -OR- front squats to help me with my Cleans

Friday:

1) Hang Cleans (3 sets of 5 reps) - don't want to lose the cleaning form, or the explosiveness of the exercise. MAYBE I could do front squats for 3 sets right after.

2) Good Mornings (8-6-6-4) - I haven’t done these with a barbell before, but once again I've heard they’re great for the posterior chain and helping the squat and deadlift.

3) Floor press (8-6-6) - Help improve the bench press

4) Hyperextensions (3 sets of 10) - I hope our gym has the bench for this, otherwise I suppose I could do it off a bench with someone sitting on my legs or something.

5) Lat pulldowns (3 x 8) - hit the lats one more time besides the pull-ups on Monday

6) Russian Lunges (1 minute on each side jumping every 5 seconds)

Sorry for the long post, but I really am very keen on preparation and I want to make sure I am ready to go with the 5x5 when summer comes around. Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

 

[Guinness5.0]

I don't think that you need all that stuff. IMO you'd be better served by keeping it simpler. At the stage your at, if you want to improve your squat and deadlift, just squat and deadlift .

I think the program you listed looks pretty damn good, but not for where you're at. It's nice to see that you're not taking the BB mag approach to training, but again I think what you listed may very well bury you again. SOmething like teh Rippetoe routine woul be more appropriate, or just take it easy for a bit, then hop on SF 5x5 and start conservatively.

My .02

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

.....

 

[mojaz87]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Thanks for the advice Guiness. I realize my training may be novice in comparison to other members on this forum, but I have been working on linear periodization for the past 1 1/2 years. My concerns with the SF 5x5 are simply that I want to be prepared for the workload of hitting these compound lifts 2-3 times per week whereas my workouts in the past have usually had each compound lift once per week, as well as additional work throughout the week. For example, I would squat 6-8 sets on Monday, do cleans and lunges on Wednesday, and front squats on Friday in addition to other work. Regardless, I have been maxing out at the end of 7 week cycles for these past 1.5 years and I have gotten to a point where the increased weight does not come as easily as it once did although I still gain about 10 lbs. per lift every 2 months. Squats I gain more because I have corrected my technique and am now really starting to reap the benefits. Perhaps I should have listed my stats, etc earlier.

Age: 19
Height: 5'9"
Weight: 170-175 lbs.

Maxes (1x):
Flat Bench: 225 lbs.
Decline Bench: 225 lbs.
Incline Bench: 215 lbs.(@ the end of last summer, then I started doing declines)
Cleans: 210 lbs.
Squats: soon to be 325 lbs.
Deadlift: Today was the first day but based off that I would project somehwere in the 300's once I get the form down. I was doing sets of 225 today.

These are all the documented maxes I've got. I don't know why my bench presses are so close together. I would have thought the flat should be the greatest, but it just hasn't been that way, and that's why I'm looking to improve it. Thanks a lot for the advice Guiness, and I'd appreciate any other input you have.

 

[Guinness5.0]

LOL - I got you confued with czar

My response was meant to be for him had he come up with that program for himself.

Listening and reading comprehension are definitely skills

Looks good to me.

 

[anotherbutters]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

No need to apologise. Posting a question here takes the load off madcow and other people might find the replies useful.

I'd say your routine looks damned good for a 19 yr old. Not a single barbell curl in sight! You might want to add more rowing to compliment the pressing. You've three types of bench press, but only one row. Being able to pull as much as you can push is good for shoulder health. You didn't list what you can row, so I assume you don't put much emphasis on it.

If you're new to deadlifting, I wouldn't do singles. Save them for later. Give your body time to learn the movement. Hone the groove. Trying to max out whilst you're still learning the movement is inviting injury.

I take it you've been training in a linear fashion and resetting every 7 weeks? Do you reset just because you've reached week 7, or do you usually stall in that week? Just curious - if you're still making progress, you ought to carry on.