Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Roofus]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Ok. Just want to make sure I have my math correct and understand correctly.

If for instance my max squat is 225. Then 225 needs to be my fith set. So I take 10-15% off of this for the 4th set, and so on.
So if I choose to do it at 15% it would look something like:

1st set: 115
2nd set: 135
3rd set: 160
4th set: 190
5th set: 225
*I rounded these off to get at a even weight, but only .5-1lb.

If this is right, then I'm good to go and can figure out the numbers on the rest of the excersizes.
Thanks.

 

[Madcow2]

That's the math and it's applied correctly. Just make sure it makes sense for you. On a lift where you are handling more weight like a squat or pull or even bench it might make sense to go a bit narrower than 15% to make the jumps smooth (i.e. 30-50lbs jumps can be unrealistic at times and work against you). With something like an overhead press maybe the larger jumps are more appropriate to make the numbers work and give you better spread. Probably not very clear but in short - use your head and think if something makes sense and is workable.

 

[Czar87]

I just fnished 3rd week, things are going well tough
it seems that i damaged my right knee somehow last week, it doesnt hurt when i squat or when i walk but i just feel it being there ... i feel little discomfort like the knee being week but it doesnt put me to limb
Also i squat with mr. smith wich i hate, but what can you do ... anyway what are your suggestions what should i do, i dont wanna quit

 

[Madcow2]

First - the smith is never good and it can put the body in an especially bad/unnatural position impacting the knees. I'd almost suggest purchasing squat stands for your gym and leaving them there as a contribution. Actually, I'd probably go that route and try to sell them on the idea. Here is an example of what I'm talking about: http://www.prosportuk.com/detail/2/146/320 although you can go nicer or 1 piece or whatever.

Second - I'm not sure whether you hurt your knee training or unrelated but regardless, you need to back it down for now and take care of yourself. Lifting personal bests on a possibly shaky knee can result in injury either to the knee itself or to other parts as you subconsciously overcompensate to work around the knee. This is not a competition situation where you dig deep and put it on the line. This is recreational training. The main issue is that this whole program is basically focused around the squat but if you want to stick with it, you'll have to change that and be safe. So forget setting 5RM PRs (I'm guessing you are using the linear version? or non periodized). Cut the squat frequency, intensity and volume down until you know you are okay. Maybe spend some time doing lighter 10-15 rep sets not to failure and no more than 1-2 sets 2x a week at the most. In place of that maybe incorporate some type of pulling like RDL if it's comfortable (with less squatting you'll be able to make room for more work, I just don't want it bothering the knee and I'm guessing a fixed knee and just pulling will work around it and still provide some benefit).

It's basically a judgement call on what you can do, how fast you think you'll heal, and what your best course of action is. Unfortunately that's all on you but your body is for life and there is no exchange policy. Generally most people here are lifting for nothing more than personal fullfillment so don't risk serious injury or damage in the short-term just because you are enjoying your training. Rational, logical, long term mindset. You have plenty of time to heal up and push hard for years to come. Blow out a knee and you will seriously regret the impatience. Just give it time and care.

 

[Czar87]

call me stupid but i will finish the next and the final week of volume
i dont wanna quit, atleast i go through volume phase and see whats the situation after that, if going worse ill quit ... injury came from squatting, i dont know, maybe i went straight with my knees or they collapsed inside or i bounced

but maybe i should do leg press or what you think ?

ouh and i do dual factor =) if i think about it now maybe i jumped in too fast. because i wasnt familiar with lifts and bad form is present sometimes, tough i hope i go through it without injury, weights arent high too

anyway i dont regret anything, i have to say past 3 weeks have been best of my last few years in personal life and etc. ... slight smirk in my face all time and i even cleaned my room


Thank MC2

 

[blut wump]

I'd suggest you take the 2x per week deload option. It's ideal for nursing a fatigued frame. Take care, though, that your next week isn't your final week of squatting for several months. I've aborted a run of the dual factor due to hurting my knee over the weekend at the end of week three. I know exactly what you mean, though, about the pleasure of the 5x5.

Life is long and holds many more opportunities to run the program.

 

[DZLS]

what is this...?

taken from the SF spreadsheet...

Tonnage Cutoff 60% Given % of Single Rep Max for Inclusion in Relevant Tonnage
what is that number 60% all about, and what would happen if we changed it at all... and should we even be doing so...?

 

[Protobuilder]

i think it means you don't include in your tonnage/workload calculation anything under 60% of your 1RM (i.e., easy warm up sets). Basically, you can track your tonnage as a way of monitoring the overall workload and, from there, add or subtract as needed to allow for restoration phases, loading phases, etc. A lot of people only track the load once it reaches a certain level of intensity--here, it's 60%--or they monitor the number of lifts performed at various intensities (i.e., 5 sets at 65%, 3 sets at 85%, etc.). These are just ways of tracking workload. Another useful tool is adding in a subjective component and noting for each exercise the "perceived effort" using a scale of 1-5 or 1-10. So, you'd have the quantitative measure (e.g., tonnage calculation), and a subjective analysis of how "tough" the exercise felt that day. Just diff't ways of monitoring the organism to see how it's reacting to stress (exercise). Smart people can use that info. to make logical adjustments.

I could be wrong though.

 

[Madcow2]

It's right, just a tool. You have to have a cutoff somewhere based on intensity - i.e. think about walking, it can be done for huge volume every day because it is very low intensity. You don't add up the poundage moved with every step and throw it in there. Just not as much wear and tear once you get out of the top end and for strength/size not too much benefit in spending a lot of time down there either.

 

[Czar87]

Thanks for the replay bw and mac2, but what you think if i finish my 4th week with leg press or should i do low volume squatting or what ? Then for the 5th week ill take a whole week off and after that i'll start deloading