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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

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  1. #1081
    Good Broly siamesedream's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Madcow,


    How would one go about bring up a lagging body part properly? This is a purely hypothetical question, so I have no specific body part in mind, but I'm curious how a person should go about bringing up a lagging body part when we all know that the best training is using compound movements. For example, say someone's chest and back are fantastic, yet their arms are much smaller than they should be proportionally. Should that person start focusing on the less-than-optimal isolationist movements such as curls and tricep extensions? Continuing training the compound lifts as per the norm would seem to simply cause that person to grow as they have been (e.g. out of proportion).

  2. #1082
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by siamesedream
    Madcow,


    How would one go about bring up a lagging body part properly? This is a purely hypothetical question, so I have no specific body part in mind, but I'm curious how a person should go about bringing up a lagging body part when we all know that the best training is using compound movements. For example, say someone's chest and back are fantastic, yet their arms are much smaller than they should be proportionally. Should that person start focusing on the less-than-optimal isolationist movements such as curls and tricep extensions? Continuing training the compound lifts as per the norm would seem to simply cause that person to grow as they have been (e.g. out of proportion).
    I assume aesthetics rather than functional or strength issue.

    Well you certainly don't drop the compound lifts. Maybe go to maintenance levels but you don't fubar the whole thing. A lot has to do with genetics - meaning, some people will always have relatively smaller arms than their torso and they will struggle to maintain symmetry. Of course the main issue is that people tend to blow their small flaws totally out of proportion and fixate on them. So they would then increase the workload specific to that bodypart or perhaps skew exercises and programing to prioritize. Success depends upon genetics. Some people just aren't going to have big arms, others might have decent arm genetics but their structure tends to derrive the majority of force in compound lifts from the torso so the arms don't do as much work as in the majority of cases. It all depends but obviously you work on it and that's all you can do.

  3. #1083
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Madcow,

    Throughout my training, everything has been showing consistent gains with the recent training I've been doing except pull-ups. For a period of time, they were getting better and I was increasing the weight used on them for a while. Around 6 weeks ago, that exercise began to show regression so I ramped down and have been building back up. Oddly enough, my performance regression on pull-ups is still continuing even though I ramped down. I started decreasing the amount of weight I added each week on the pull-ups, and I'm still unable to perform with less weight what I could with more weight around 10 weeks ago.

    Linear progression and deloading has been going great with everything except pull-ups, so I guess I'm asking what exactly is going on here. I highly doubt one particular muscle group of my body has somehow gotten to the point where it requires periodization, so is just a specific part of my body in an accumulated state of fatigue? It seems ramping down was not enough to dissipate the fatigue as my performance on that exercise has been going to crap, so should I start deloading on that one exercise for the next week or 2 by decreasing volume drastically and keeping weight consistent for that deloading period? It's odd to constantly be getting stronger on everything else while pull-ups have begun spiraling downward.

  4. #1084
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Did you include your increase in bodyweight to the pullup-weight ?

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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Hey, i really like the Starr's 5x5 program, ill start tomorrow
    We have great gym with ltos of machines but no squatting rack, tough we have a smith machine, do i loose much if i squat with mr smith or is it thinkable ?

    Also it seems i cant do any pull ups, atleast not more that 2 barely, something to substitue this ? Pull down with cable maybe 'til i get stronger ?


    Thank you
    Last edited by Czar87; 29-Jan-2006 at 11:03 AM.

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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Czar87
    Hey, i really like the Starr's 5x5 program, ill start tomorrow
    We have great gym with ltos of machines but no squatting rack, tough we have a smith machine, do i loose much if i squat with mr smith or is it thinkable ?

    Also it seems i cant do any pull ups, atleast not more that 2 barely, something to substitue this ? Pull down with cable maybe 'til i get stronger ?


    Thank you
    Ouch - it will hurt it a lot but no more than any other program. Squatting is a fundemental motion for the body and can really drive everything else, you use what you have so smith it or leg press but it's a huge blow IMO (so "great gym" and "no rack" are mutually exclusive). Use free weights for the rest but pull downs are okay if you can't do chins or pullups.

    Just in case you didn't see the updated descriptions and table of contents it's on this site: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm

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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Maks
    Did you include your increase in bodyweight to the pullup-weight ?
    My bodyweight hasn't been increasing, actually, as my goal is to have it slowly go down right now, so I'm not sure why my pull-up performance is going down as well. It may just be some major accumulated fatigue.



    Anyways, madcow, I guess I have 2 questions now whenever you get around to it.


    1.) (from above) Throughout my training, everything has been showing consistent gains with the recent training I've been doing except pull-ups. For a period of time, they were getting better and I was increasing the weight used on them for a while. Around 6 weeks ago, that exercise began to show regression so I ramped down and have been building back up. Oddly enough, my performance regression on pull-ups is still continuing even though I ramped down. I started decreasing the amount of weight I added each week on the pull-ups, and I'm still unable to perform with less weight what I could with more weight around 10 weeks ago.

    Linear progression and deloading has been going great with everything except pull-ups, so I guess I'm asking what exactly is going on here. I highly doubt one particular muscle group of my body has somehow gotten to the point where it requires periodization, so is just a specific part of my body in an accumulated state of fatigue? It seems ramping down was not enough to dissipate the fatigue as my performance on that exercise has been going to crap, so should I start deloading on that one exercise for the next week or 2 by decreasing volume drastically and keeping weight consistent for that deloading period? It's odd to constantly be getting stronger on everything else while pull-ups have begun spiraling downward.


    2.) Are there actually plausible studies that show that the length of a workout actually matters? A lot of bodybuilders and other programs say that if a workout lasts longer than 40 minutes to an hour, the entire training session is detrimental to your progress thanks to a major decrease in test levels as well as skyrocketing cortisol levels. Is this actually scientifically verified information?
    Last edited by siamesedream; 29-Jan-2006 at 07:46 PM.

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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Quote Quote posted by Madcow2
    Ouch - it will hurt it a lot but no more than any other program. Squatting is a fundemental motion for the body and can really drive everything else, you use what you have so smith it or leg press but it's a huge blow IMO (so "great gym" and "no rack" are mutually exclusive). Use free weights for the rest but pull downs are okay if you can't do chins or pullups.

    Just in case you didn't see the updated descriptions and table of contents it's on this site: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm
    Arghh thats not good at all if i loose something with it ... but isnt smitthing just like squatting but i just dont have to stabilize the weight, i still squatt and press with my legs and body, dont i ? CAn you tell me how much do i loose and how bad is it


    btw great site, thanks

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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    It's pretty much night and day. Read the Arioch article on the squat in the exercise section it goes into some detail on the smith. Stabalization is important, it plays a large role in the effectiveness of the exercise. It looks similar but it's a very big deal. Then again, you do what you have to do. It's better than nothing and a whole lot better than some alternatives.

  10. #1090
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    I heard about Plyometric Exercise, anyone know what this is ?

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