Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Madcow2]

nelmsjer - great results. Your 1RM potential is probably a bit better since it seems you didn't actually do much in the way of actively preparing for it (i.e. doubles/singles to peak). Another thing, seeing 45 minutes for workout time - I'm not sure which version you were doing but if strength is a priority, taking more time between sets can be very beneficial. Granted the 'conditioning' aspect is lessened but resistance/strength training isn't really the place to be doing this type of semi-cardio anyway. Don't be lazy and sit around, but take the time you need for the big sets.

If you are looking for more workload in the first half, the logical extension is to make both M/F 5x5 days with full work sets and no ramping days. I'd be more likely to not change anything the 2nd time through and just use your relevant target lifts and plan on exceeding them in both weeks 3/4 (to where you are pushing at or near 100%). This is something that most don't really do their first time through and it results in less fatigue by design to make sure people don't blow up (i.e. 80% result is better than 10% result). You might also find you are a lot stronger with longer rest periods so factor that into the equation too.

Anyway, some things to think about for the future. Glad you and everyone had a good experience.

 

[Khryz]

I'm kinda in the same situation now. I'm on my 4th week of DF 5x5 and and I went from a 205 5RM bench to a 220 5RM bench already. I don't want to deload now because I feel fine and strong so I'm going to just extend the loading period until I feel like I'm over-reaching and that I need to deload. I feel if I deloaded after this week I would be missing out on some gains. Even though I set my previous PR's in Week 3, I started the first 2 weeks pretty light so that is probably why I'm not over-reachin yet - though I feel it has paid off because I'm passing my previous PR's very easily and feel like I can keep going. I guess I should have done SF but oh well it's too late now.

 

[siamesedream]

madcow, can you tell me if there's anything wrong with this plan of mine? I won't have access to a gym for a while, so, using a backpack and weights, this is the best plan I could come up with. Increases are made every week, and this is my second week of failure on the chin-ups so I'll ramp back down next week on those if failure continues.


Plan for week beginning January 3, 2005



Tuesday
1-L Squats 30 lbs. 5x5
Push-ups 52.5 lbs. 5x5
Chin-ups 12.5 lbs 5x3
Dips 27.5 lbs. 5x5
Sit-ups 110



Thursday
1-L Squats 30 lbs. 4x5
Incline Push-ups 42.5 lbs. 5x5
Chin-ups 12.5 lbs. 5x3
Curls 75 lbs. 3x5
Sit-ups 110



Saturday
1-L Squats 30 lbs. 5x5
Push-ups 52.5 lbs. 5x5
Chin-ups 12.5 lbs. 5x3
Diamond push-ups 15 lbs 5x7
Sit-ups 110

 

[Madcow2]

Instead of trying to do some dedicated full blown strength program without access to decent equipment, why not do some basic maintenance exercises in some type of 8-12 rep range with what you have and focus your attention on something else for a bit. Maybe conditioning, sprinting, swimming, more endurance type activities, anything. Use this as an excuse to get out and do something else for a bit.

 

[siamesedream]

Well, I certainly could, but I'm trying to bulk right now. If it's not possible to do so without a gym, I could focus on aerobic conditioning.

 

[Protobuilder]

Well, been trying to get 5x180 on bench for 4 sessions now (running SF 5x5) and tonight I actually got one rep less than last time. I did nothing yesterday so wasn't pre-exhausted or anything.

What do you guys think is the best way to deal w/ this? (a) reramp the bench, or (b) reduce volume in my 3d and 4th set [I'm currently doing 3 reps on my 4th set but I could try doing a single or double on my 3d and 4th set), or (c) try doing a few warmup sets and then maybe 3 sets of 2 w/ my 180 or something . . .

I appreciate everyone's comments and patience! I'm learning this thing . . . and determined to understand it.

 

[nelmsjer]

nelmsjer - great results. Your 1RM potential is probably a bit better since it seems you didn't actually do much in the way of actively preparing for it (i.e. doubles/singles to peak). Another thing, seeing 45 minutes for workout time - I'm not sure which version you were doing but if strength is a priority, taking more time between sets can be very beneficial. Granted the 'conditioning' aspect is lessened but resistance/strength training isn't really the place to be doing this type of semi-cardio anyway. Don't be lazy and sit around, but take the time you need for the big sets.

If you are looking for more workload in the first half, the logical extension is to make both M/F 5x5 days with full work sets and no ramping days. I'd be more likely to not change anything the 2nd time through and just use your relevant target lifts and plan on exceeding them in both weeks 3/4 (to where you are pushing at or near 100%). This is something that most don't really do their first time through and it results in less fatigue by design to make sure people don't blow up (i.e. 80% result is better than 10% result). You might also find you are a lot stronger with longer rest periods so factor that into the equation too.

Anyway, some things to think about for the future. Glad you and everyone had a good experience.

Madcow2, you're absolutely correct about a few things on this. I didn't spend any time at all doing doubles or singles, which actually impresses me even more about the program. Right now, I'm just not too interested in 1RM, except to find out how much the program helped improve them. Reading that previous sentence again, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Hmmm... I guess the best way I can explain it is that I tested my 1RM on squat, bench press, and deadlift for the first time in years (literally) before I started the 5x5 program, with the intention of finding out how much strength increases the program would provide (just another part of the experiment and learning process). I already had a good idea it would be good for hypertrophy, so I wanted to find out how good it was at both functions. Again, I'm very pleased.

Regarding the rest times, you are absolutely correct about those, too. My issue is that I am blessed to be in Iraq, where we literally work 12 hours per day, 7 days per week. Going anywhere for lunch (in this case, our workout) requires that we are back within an hour, and we aren't paid for it. I'm up at 0600, at work by 0700, workout at 1300, and am finished with work at 2000. By the time I've gone to get food at the cafeteria and eaten, it is 2100. My wife and I are in bed and asleep by 2200. All that to say that my lunch hour is the only time we have to workout, and unfortunately, longer rest periods are not an option. I know without a shadow of a doubt that my strength increases would have been even better.

Regarding your quote:

If you are looking for more workload in the first half, the logical extension is to make both M/F 5x5 days with full work sets and no ramping days. I'd be more likely to not change anything the 2nd time through and just use your relevant target lifts and plan on exceeding them in both weeks 3/4 (to where you are pushing at or near 100%).

, I will very much keep that in mind. I had not thought about changing both days to 5x5, instead of 1x5, and that certainly takes care of the greater workload issue. As you have mentioned countless times before, however, I also have much better numbers to use for my target weights, so I will run through the second round more intelligently. I'll leave it as is, with better numbers.

Thanks for your post.

 

[Numani]

Well, been trying to get 5x180 for 4 sessions now (running SF 5x5) and tonight I actually got one rep less than last time. I did nothing yesterday so wasn't pre-exhausted or anything.

What do you guys think is the best way to deal w/ this? (a) reramp the bench, or (b) reduce volume in my 3d and 4th set [I'm currently doing 3 reps on my 4th set but I could try doing a single or double on my 3d and 4th set), or (c) try doing a few warmup sets and then maybe 3 sets of 2 w/ my 180 or something . . .

I appreciate everyone's comments and patience! I'm learning this thing . . . and determined to understand it.

I would re-ramp after four attempts. I doubt scaling down the reps on the 3rd and 4th set is going to make too much difference. You may get that weight but still have a major struggle going forward.

create a re-ramp that gets you back to 180 in one months time.

my £0.02

 

[marc1]

I would re-ramp after four attempts. I doubt scaling down the reps on the 3rd and 4th set is going to make too much difference. You may get that weight but still have a major struggle going forward.

create a re-ramp that gets you back to 180 in one months time.

my £0.02

I tink he is right you should reramp since I believe Rip mentioned in another post that if you get less reps one workout after trying several times with the same weight that something needed to be changed and started again on that particular exercise,

 

[blut wump]

Reramping is only one option. Working a different rep-range is another option. Dropping one or two of the ramping sets is another option. Dropping some of the ramps down to singles might work.