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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now! within the Weight Training & Weight Lifting category.

Excerpt: Content by Madcow2 Last Revised 1/11/2006 UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with

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  1. #1011
    Guru Slyder190's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Yep, Slyder's got another Q for madcow. An easy one though. Can 5x5 be run back to back? The Core DFHT was too much volume and wasn't good for me. I was wondering before I try and configure my own program, if doing another immediate run of 5x5 was a good or bad idea. Of course I don't ecpect the same type of progress as my first run, but, yay or nay?

  2. #1012
    Da Pope blut wump's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Definitely, yes. If you finish the first feeling loaded, though, then you should take a deload week between them to start the second one feeling fresh. The great thing about running them back-to-back is that on the second run you have no need to guess your values for week 3 since you can just look back a few weeks.

    Madcow has said pretty much that in this monster thread somewhere if you care to go find it .

    He doesn't seem to have been around for a few days, though.

  3. #1013
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

    NEW TOC TEMPLATE

    ------------------

    Content by Madcow2
    Last Revised 12/27/2005

    UPDATE - I have updated program descriptions, template downloads, and an updated Table of Contents on my Geocities site (i.e. lots more topics and better organization). This will be the final update of this TOC in the thread (and it's an incomplete one because there's just too much) but the one on that site essentially links all the topics below and more, many of which come to this very thread. This is easier on me and the better descriptions with charts and better layout are easier on you.





    Table of Contents for this Thread:

    Part I - The Program
    Part II - Exercise Descriptions
    Part III - Some General Pieces
    PART IV - A Few Other Programs
    PART V - Sources for Knowledge, Interviews, Articles



    PART I: The Program


    Dual Factor/Periodized for Advanced:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=381

    Intermediate Lifter Version – Single Factor/Linear:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...4&postcount=15

    Dual Factor Theory - Why this Works:
    (The further one progresses the more critical it becomes to understand basic training concepts like this. If you aren't familiar with this, it is absolutely essential. This is how top athletes in sport are trained the world over and this includes adding LBM in addition to strength, speed, and power.)
    http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...rtraining.html
    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showp...48&postcount=3

    Weight Selection/Time Between Sets/Exercise Substitution:
    (The long and short is Important/Take what you need/Don't fuck with this especially the squats. Adding some arm work once a week is fine. Subbing incline for standing military is fine. Adding core work and doing cardio is fine. Do not sub in a machine variant unless you are injured or over 65.)
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=372686
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=371821
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=201

    Some Results From Members:
    (Note, far too much to keep track of at this point. There are basically just the first people who used the 5x5 programs here at Elitefitness. Also there are tons of logs and other info on this site now so just browse around or run a search)
    blut wump: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=125
    super_rice: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=140
    Ghettostudmuffin:...Week 5: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=154
    ...........................Week 6: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=166
    BionicBC: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=345
    Ceasar989:....http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=185
    ...................http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=289
    Jim Quini: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=523

    Why Haven’t Most BBers Heard of This Type of Training if It’s so Commonly Used Around the World for Athletics, Powerlifting, and Olympic Lifting?
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=133
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=234

    Beyond the 5x5 – Planning Your Training Cycles:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=186





    PART II: Exercise Descriptions


    Correct Way to Perform Barbell Rows:
    (2 Variations – the one at the bottom of page 1 is best)
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=366601
    Links to pics: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=301

    The Only Shrug – The Power Shrug:
    (Toss out the bullshit standard shrug - enjoy big increases in the mirror and increase your explosive power all at once)
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=319

    The Snatch:
    One of the best exercises for developing power - I believe Arioch wrote this originally
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=428

    Some General Exercise Description and Video Links:
    Very detailed Squat, Deadlift, and Benchpress descriptions are stickied in the PLing forum these are 'must reads' for every lifter:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7
    Videos:
    http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/...ideo_index.htm
    http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html
    http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/Home.htm





    PART III: Some General Pieces


    Why Speed/Acceleration is Critical in Lifting:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...6&postcount=62

    Why A Bodypart Split/Frequency is Insufficient -
    Or - "How Many Times Should I Hit a Muscle Each Week":

    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=386

    The Deadlift and Recovery
    Increasing the Deadlift Without Deadlifting - Take 2
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=388

    Diet and Training - Caloric Excess
    This is the only thing I'm writing on diet - more than enough other sources out there
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=465






    PART IV: A Few Other Programs


    Glenn Pendlay on Mark Ripptoe’s Squat Program for New Lifters:
    (routinely gets 30-40lbs of bodyweight increase within 6 months)
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=235

    Smolov Squat Cycle:
    (Considered the holy grail of squat programs - very demanding)
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=107

    Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training:
    Courtesy of Matt Reynolds
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=423
    Word Doc: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...y_Training.doc




    PART V: Sources for Knowledge, Interviews, Articles, Tools

    Interview with Strength Coach Glenn Pendlay:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=155

    Interview with Strength Coach Mark Rippetoe:
    http://www.readthecore.com/200507/trenches.htm

    Pendlay and Rippetoe on Programing:
    http://www.readthecore.com/200510/markr.htm

    Renowned Speed Coach Charlie Francis on HIT:
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=285

    WSB Louie Simmons – What a Gym Needs:
    http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls8.htm

    Prilepin's Table:
    A good illustration of the interplay between volume and intensity
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=387

    1RM Equations and Estimates:
    To help estimate a 1RM, 5RM or whatever
    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=393

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  4. #1014
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Question for the single-factor masters: I reread this post on tolerating workload from the 5x5 TOC (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=842). I'm wondering when/if I should increase my training volume. I'm making good progress and am into my 8th week of the SF 5x5. Lifts are going up slowly but surely. My workouts are pretty damn easy though b/c really only the last set or two are difficult b/c I'm ramping per the SF version. I thought adding volume was one way to help you progress further and that you'd just add it in as it became necessary. But in the post linked above, it kinda' seems like increasing your work capacity is something we ought to do as well. So . . . do I start adding more volume only when I absolutely have to or should I think about adding more now and making my workouts a little more difficult?

  5. #1015
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Work capacity increases gradually over time. That said, the goal is to move more weight not do more work so if lifts are rising consistently - don't fix what isn't broken. To a degree it's a lot like anything else, if you want to become a better golfer, playing 1x per week will really have an impact and help you. But you can bet that very good golfers practice and devote quite a bit of time to it, just playing 18 holes once a week doesn't get them where they want to be but obviously some will do better than others and a few could even become very solid players like this.

    Where this example breaks down is that you can tolerate a lot of golf but not so much resistance exercise near maximal efforts. Then again just like in golf you develop calouses on your hands and get conditioned to swinging the club a lot - very similar to building tolerance to workload. Just rambling but you get the idea, workload is stimulus but the goal is improvement not workload so you apply as much stimulus as appropriate for the goal at hand. This is actually where HIT gets the idea right in that you want to progress as often as possible and beat on your body as little as possible to allow for optimal progression. Where I think a lot of them get lost is in adhering to ultra-low volume and the "failure as a goal" type training irregardless of all else. But efficiency and progression is very much key.

  6. #1016
    Good Broly siamesedream's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    If you miss Friday's workout and are gone for the weekend, should you still increase your weights the following Monday?

  7. #1017
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    Totally case by case but for most here I'd lean towards no, unless it's in the initial couple of weeks. I also assume we are talking the linear/intermediate/single factor program?

  8. #1018
    Good Broly Maks's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    If you miss Friday's workout and are gone for the weekend, should you still increase your weights the following Monday?
    ah - good question ! i got the same problem - around once a month i can only pratice 2 times a week.
    I would like to fuse the wednesday/friday plan a little bit together for the second training. So i would do essentially the wednesday program, but with the Friday Squats (with heavy triple), and doing the Friday rows (with heavy triple) instead of the optional chins. That would leave only the bench undone, but i dont have any problem with my bench so it seems ok.
    Do you think that would work ? With the option to increase the weight on Monday again if it feels good ? Or is it too much doing squats/ dls/ rows on one day ?
    Otherwise that would only leave skipping the Friday entirely and keeping the weight for one more week constant like you already said ... All SF, of course.

    Thanks !

    BTW, going really great thus far with the SF 5x5 !

  9. #1019
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    I'd probably offset the workout to another day if you were doing that. Probably M/R or something along those lines. It might be a hard workout but the big issue is workload over a period so one harder day doesn't really mean a lot in isolation - plus there is built in rest since you are doing less work over the week with more total recovery time.

  10. #1020
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    Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

    By the way, for anyone that cares I did finally put the spreadsheet templates up on my Geocities site.

    Obviously, they are useless for those who can already setup the program properly (there might be some useful 1RM conversions to take away though), but for someone just beginning to look at these it can be pretty helpful to see how everything might lay out and have confidence that you didn't miss something huge. Of course, training is ideally fairly individual so this is not something you use as a hard rule or run the same thing continually without thought, just a tool to help understand and check over an initial layout. Far too many assumptions in spreadsheets like this that will be unrealistic or very suboptimal depending on a given individual.


    Intermediate/Linear Program with Template Download:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

    Advanced/Periodized Program with Template Download:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...odized_5x5.htm

    Main Site/Table of Contents:
    http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm

    I'm also doing some final updates on this thread's TOC and the core programs in here for those who have been provided direct links. I did the TOC, just need to knock out the 2 programs.

    I also have to do some kind of beginner's program and then a comparison page on my site but after that, this stuff is materially finished.

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