Best Lat Excercises

[Guinness5.0]

CNS stimulation, balancing, etc.. etc.. has no bearing to my comparision. Hell, CNS stimulation and balancing has no coorelation to the actual POINT OF DOING THE EXERCISE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Squats = work the target muscle from top to bottom, including the entire secondary and stabilizing muscles.

Seated cable rows = ditto. Works the entire target muscle top to bottom. Lats, rhomboids, traps, teres min/maj, rear delts, heck you can even include forearms and abs in there.

Balance is a fundamental element when considering the effectiveness and systemic load of exercises. Squats work the legs (calves included), back (erectors, traps, etc), shoulders, abs, etc. all while taking balance/stabilization into the equation.

Seated cable rows only work the back. OTOH, something like BB rows in the link I provided involve the legs to a fairly significant degree, while also forcing the body to adjust to dynamic changes (each rep is de-weighted on the floor, then accelerated through the concentric portion of its ROM). This is far more stimulative sytemically and would be more warranted as a "squat for the back" comparison. Seated cable rows would equate more with something like leg press where balance is a non-factor.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is more to an exercise and it's effectiveness than making the muscles contract. And this is not personal to me, just discussion. Didn't mean to be a prick but I think you're wrong on this point so I'm throwing in my $.02. Nothing more.

 

[LT3]

Balance is a fundamental element when considering the effectiveness and systemic load of exercises. Squats work the legs (calves included), back (erectors, traps, etc), shoulders, abs, etc. all while taking balance/stabilization into the equation.

Seated cable rows only work the back. OTOH, something like BB rows in the link I provided involve the legs to a fairly significant degree, while also forcing the body to adjust to dynamic changes (each rep is de-weighted on the floor, then accelerated through the concentric portion of its ROM). This is far more stimulative sytemically and would be more warranted as a "squat for the back" comparison. Seated cable rows would equate more with something like leg press where balance is a non-factor.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is more to an exercise and it's effectiveness than making the muscles contract. And this is not personal to me, just discussion. Didn't mean to be a prick but I think you're wrong on this point so I'm throwing in my $.02. Nothing more.

bro youre looking at this from a different view that we are. if you wanna built muscle for a visual purpuse then clable rows are the best way. if you wanna be a powerlifter then deads are the best way. but how you can say that cable rows arnt the squat for back is beyond me. like AAP said similar to squats utilizing a great amount of muscles, cables too utilize a huge number of muscles. can you say the same thing for bb rows. i cant. the only thing that i get from bb rows are lats. but if i do just cable rows, ill get: traps, rhomboids, teres. lower back, lats, abs, rear delts, and even bis and especially forearms. another thing is that if i was restricted for time or equipment and i did 12 sets of bb rows, i wouldnt get a whole back work out, but if i did 12 sets of cable rows, every muscle in my back would be aching. and another thing you mentioned is bb rows using legs as if it is a good thing. the whole point is bbing is to isolate the muscle. yes it is good to use compound movements but only to a degree, you cannot sculpt the body without doing some exercises that isolate the muscles. but like you said this is only my opinion and it differs for everyone. to me balancing doesnt come into the equation. why should it, i dont get judged on balancing when i go on stage, i get judged on the package that i present and if cable rows help me bring that package then thats what i will continue to do.on the other hand a powerlifter does need to throw balance in the equation so thats why all those compound movements are crucial and unreplacable for them.

 

[vin01]

I don't want to get involved here, but I am interested in how cable rows build more muscle (involve more groups) then BB rows? I have been doing strictly bb rows for the past few months and my lats have gotten larger, as well as my traps. However, this just may be attributed to my w/o in general.

I'd like to see why a cable row involves more muscles?

Also, what the hell is a gorilla grip?

 

[musketeer]

And your contribution to this thread is.... ?

I'm saying that you can get a hell of a lot of crap from the popular magazies. Pros are always quoted as saying ignorant things about training, and you never know whether it's them or just the editor.

"seated cable rows are the "squat" for your back" sounds just like something that you would typically read. Like someone calling the pullover the upper-body squat, or the Zottman curl: Squats for your bi's...

ANYWAY

BB rows are FAR superior to cable rows for building lats or pretty much anything else in the back. 'Balancing' the weight is exactly why it's so much better than the cable row for getting all of those little cookie cutter muscles to grow. Bent rows create depth and thickness because you are using the entire body to power much more weight up under much more stressfull conditions. The only good thing about the cable row is that in contest prep you can save energy as you are low on calories.

By your own rationel, the squat for the legs would be the leg extension superset with the leg curl! The way you talk about 'sculpting' and 'isolating' shows that you proably should read the 5x5 main thread and open your mind a little.

If I were to call any exercise a squat for the back (which I wouldn't) then it would be the POWERCLEAN.

I realise that you don't get my ironic sense of humor in my first post, but I assure you I love BBing and respect many of the guys in the industry.
I hope that this contribution makes more sense, I know that you tend to hang on the anabolic board but I post a whole shitheap of good info on here.

 

[AAP]

I'm saying that you can get a hell of a lot of crap from the popular magazies. Pros are always quoted as saying ignorant things about training, and you never know whether it's them or just the editor.

"seated cable rows are the "squat" for your back" sounds just like something that you would typically read. Like someone calling the pullover the upper-body squat, or the Zottman curl: Squats for your bi's...

ANYWAY

BB rows are FAR superior to cable rows for building lats or pretty much anything else in the back. 'Balancing' the weight is exactly why it's so much better than the cable row for getting all of those little cookie cutter muscles to grow. Bent rows create depth and thickness because you are using the entire body to power much more weight up under much more stressfull conditions. The only good thing about the cable row is that in contest prep you can save energy as you are low on calories.

By your own rationel, the squat for the legs would be the leg extension superset with the leg curl! The way you talk about 'sculpting' and 'isolating' shows that you proably should read the 5x5 main thread and open your mind a little.

If I were to call any exercise a squat for the back (which I wouldn't) then it would be the POWERCLEAN.

I realise that you don't get my ironic sense of humor in my first post, but I assure you I love BBing and respect many of the guys in the industry.
I hope that this contribution makes more sense, I know that you tend to hang on the anabolic board but I post a whole shitheap of good info on here.

Try doing BB rows with a narrow grip and see how effective that is.

Ability to cheat with bodyweight BBrow > cable rows
Blood rushing to your head BBrow > cable rows
Higher risk for lower back injury BBrow > cable rows
Shorter range of movement BBrow > cable rows
Keeping elbows out from the body (lessening the movement) BBrow > cable rows

And the 5x5 routine does nothing for me. Been there, tried that, discarded it. If someone gets growth from it, more power to them. I have never seen anyone, including quite a few pros - Baker, Darrem, Haney, Freeman, Jones, Jackson, and Cotrell - who I have trained with train with the 5x5 system. It is basically the same type of training all the way. Heavy weight, medium volume.

 

[LT3]

Try doing BB rows with a narrow grip and see how effective that is.

Ability to cheat with bodyweight BBrow > cable rows
Blood rushing to your head BBrow > cable rows
Higher risk for lower back injury BBrow > cable rows
Shorter range of movement BBrow > cable rows
Keeping elbows out from the body (lessening the movement) BBrow > cable rows

And the 5x5 routine does nothing for me. Been there, tried that, discarded it. If someone gets growth from it, more power to them. I have never seen anyone, including quite a few pros - Baker, Darrem, Haney, Freeman, Jones, Jackson, and Cotrell - who I have trained with train with the 5x5 system. It is basically the same type of training all the way. Heavy weight, medium volume.

Bro i agreee with all points. but its clear that these guys dont want to accept the fact that a cable exercise is better than a freeweight exercise. so no point arguing. if you guys grow off of bb rows then keep doing them. for me they nothing but tire out my bis fore arms and lower back. when i do cable rows, i get a full back work out.

 

[musketeer]

Try doing BB rows with a narrow grip and see how effective that is.

You can go as narrow as you like with a curl grip but why would you want to?
A cable row is also a little dodgy wit ha wider grip.

Ability to cheat with bodyweight BBrow > cable rows

Learn how to row correcty cheating isn't all bad, plenty of people pully row badly.

Blood rushing to your head BBrow > cable rows

Less chance of blood rushing to the head if you are a home in your armchair, but still avalid point.

Higher risk for lower back injury BBrow > cable rows

True, but if you have a weak lower back from just doing cable stuff...

Shorter range of movement BBrow > cable rows

Full ROM is not terribly important to developing a bodypart - otherwise pullovers and that natilus machine where you push down your elbows would be the best developers and cable flyes would build a huge chest.

Keeping elbows out from the body (lessening the movement) BBrow > cable rows

This basically means that more stess is bourne by the upper back as some is taken from the lats. Not a problem - but you are right, this thread is about LATS.

I'm not supprised that the pros don't use the 5x5 because it's not as flashy or fun as a conventional 5 day split. When people are taking over a gram of Test a week and a handfull of orals every day, all they need to do is a mediocre workout in order to grow. Thats why a lot of pros seem to say that it's all 90% diet.

I'm exhausted and ready for bed, but I'll post up tomorrow because this is a decent tread.

 

[enigma4dub]

Bro i agreee with all points. but its clear that these guys dont want to accept the fact that a cable exercise is better than a freeweight exercise. so no point arguing. if you guys grow off of bb rows then keep doing them. for me they nothing but tire out my bis fore arms and lower back. when i do cable rows, i get a full back work out.

Obviously your idea of a good workout is based around the pump you get from doing high volume training. Most of us here accept the fact that pump and muscle soreness have no bearing on a good workout. That "feel" you get from doing cable rows is nothing more than a nuance of that muscle. The "feel" is not the same in bb rows because you are exerting yourself too much to be concerned with such unimportant things.
On another note bb rows do work your bis an lower back extremely well.....they'e suppoused to. My back only truly began developing after doing dynamic 90 degree rows from
the floor. and i think it would be easy to assume that if your back is not developing from bb rows, then you are quite simply doing the excercise wrong.

 

[LT3]

Obviously your idea of a good workout is based around the pump you get from doing high volume training. Most of us here accept the fact that pump and muscle soreness have no bearing on a good workout. That "feel" you get from doing cable rows is nothing more than a nuance of that muscle. The "feel" is not the same in bb rows because you are exerting yourself too much to be concerned with such unimportant things.
On another note bb rows do work your bis an lower back extremely well.....they'e suppoused to. My back only truly began developing after doing dynamic 90 degree rows from
the floor. and i think it would be easy to assume that if your back is not developing from bb rows, then you are quite simply doing the excercise wrong.

LOL. hey out of my whole physique my back is probably the one that stands out the most. but thats all an illusion coz according to you, im not getting a work out at all. bro what you said is soooo ridiculous i dont even have the energy to discuss it. like i said if bb rows are doing it for you, then keep doing them big man. cable rows do it for me. end of discussion.

 

[enigma4dub]

i never said you werent getting a good workout. i merely stated that you were doing the obviously inferior excercise, and there really is no sense in arguing that. and as good as your back development is it would undoubtedly be better with bb rows. with this thought process deads should probably be done on a smith machine and pull downs should replace pull ups