Trying to gain, stats have flatlined, looking for advice

[ksfoguy]

Hi All,

This crosses several forum topics so I'm starting here. I'm a newbie that has been doing a lot of research over the last few months and I would appreciate your thoughts!




First some background: I am a 34yo young man and have been training hard for the last three years, and have been struggling to gain lean mass. Due to my HIV status, I have been on HRT for the last 5 years - Androgel brings me to "average" test levels (approx 600-700ng/dl), and I have been using test boosters to boost things a little bit more.

Time working out: 3 years seriously with the goal of gaining. Approximately 2 years with two trainers (one incredible trainer).
Age: 34
Height: 6'1"
Test levels: <200ng/dl without TRT, ~ 650-700ng/dl with
Starting stats: 165-170lbs and ~ 15% body fat
Current stats: 170lbs and 13% body fat
Workouts: Weight training 3x/week with a trainer, HIIT 2-3x/week, Yoga sometimes 1x/week (where sometimes is rare..)
Nutrition: Started at 2400cal and currently at 3500cal of a 50% carb/25% protein/25% fat weight gain diet
Alcohol: I currently drink socially on the weekends, and am considering cutting this out to see how it affects my training
Goal: Gain 10lbs of lean mass

I am getting concerned that I am stuck at 170lbs and wondering if I have the natural juice (test) to make this happen. I have seeen some body composition change and people have remarked that I look "buffer," but the numbers don't lie, I haven't gained weight.

I have increased calories by 1,000 and still remain flat.

My doctor has offered Oxandrolone, with the idea that I could probably keep most gains seen from a cycle or two. This has prompted me to start researching steroids in general and considering potential ways to get over this hump. After months of research it is clear to me that there is a TON of misinformation being spread around on the 'net! I am doing my best to learn how the body works, sort out the good advice from the bad, and come to my own conclusions.

Based on my research, an ideal mass gaining cycle seems like it should include:
Testosterone - At least 100mg for TRT, ideally 300mg to gain - I can't argue that Test is the foundation
Oxandrolone - At least 40mg for solid/lean gains - I want to stay lean and mean
Nolvadex - dose TBD - From what I have read, piecing together the data, this seems like an optimal PCT choice all around

However, I think this might make for too dramatic gains, and based on what I have heard and read, I think an Ox-only cycle might help me reach my goals:
Oxandrolone - At least 40mg
Nolvadex? - dose TBD?

I am especially confused about PCT for such a limited cycle. My Dr. Didn't suggest any PCT, but he is suggesting 20mg/day max and I am thinking more like 40mg Ox. I am already on TRT, my baseline levels are below 200ng/dl, I wonder if that would drop even more? Also, the Oxandrin prescribing details mention breast issues in women so perhaps there could really be a gyno issue with men in larger doses? The side effects of Nolva seem low and well tolerated, so maybe it can only help?

Worst case, I could just try the Dr.'s suggestion:
Oxandrolone 20mg ED for 4-6 weeks
And see what happens. Seems pretty low risk.


So what do you guys think? Am I out of line considering anabolic steroids to help me reach my goals? After three years of hard work with good eating, is it possible that I just don't have the natural juice to break 170? Or should I just be eating more more more?


Thanks - J

 

[Zyglamail]

PCT is really only a concern when coming off, if your on perm TRT I would see if the doc could give you some HCG, that will plump your testes and give you a small natural test boost. Im not sure OX will be a big benefit in gaining mass and it will jack your lipid profiles. Test at 6-700 should be plenty good for you to add some mass if diet and everything is in check.

As for your diet, there are many thoughts on this, but personally I think your getting way to many carbs, id cut carbs and keep them from fruits and veggies and add more lean meat. Thats also quite a bit of volume for your caloric intake if by HIIT you mean hi intensity interval training. Im not sure what your weight training consists of but I would dial it back to the mass building basics. Squats, deads, overhead and bench press, dips and pullups (with added weight if able). Vary the rep range from 3-8 and play with the tempo (ie speed at which you move the bar).

If your doc is willing I would ask him to get RBC magnesium and zinc tests done, as well as your D3 levels. If you are not right at the upper end of the lab range start taking therapuetic doses of zinc, mag and D3 to get there. Those items are so crucial to overall health that being "IN the lab range" is not good enough, especially for an athletic individual.

 

[ksfoguy]

Hi Zyglamail,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply!

Regarding the test levels, I have heard mixed things about this. Some sources tell me that the high side of normal is 800, others say it is 1,100. If 6-700 is good then maybe I'm OK with my current dose of androgel plus the test booster (currently using Testo-FX in 8 week on/2 week off cycles).

I have been thinking the same thing about my diet - that sure is a lot of carbs - but have been working with a nutritionist on planning that part. He knows sports nutrition, and he understands my goals, but part of me thinks that the majority of his clients are trying to lose weight and ... well, something just doesn't feel right about the plan I'm on. I think I will add another high protein whole-food meal and cut down on the carbs.

I am not familiar with the effect of the Zinc/Mag/D3 levels on all of this so now I have some homework I will look into this.

I have to admit it is tempting to try the Dr.'s suggestion anad run a simple Ox cycle for 4-6 weeks and see what happens. Seems relatively low risk at the clinical dose of 20mg/day, and I'll bet I would finally see some gains.

Thanks again - J

 

[BigMemph]

Hi,

Im new hear and would like some advice on gaining some lean mass. Im 6'1'' and 186lbs with a 31'' waist and a 16'' neck placing me at 8-9%BF. im pretty cut up and i intake between 2100-1500 cals a day 60-30-10 ratio with about 300g protein, 150-170 carbs and between 50-70g of fat. i work out 7 days a week and do a 2mile run about 4 days a week. The problem is i cut down from 245 to my current wieght because i was kind of fat, and now i dont want any fat back so im kind of afraid to over intake. how many cals should i intake to gain with the right ratio? please help...

 

[Nelson Montana]

Listen to Zyg. I would add a few things.

If your doc wants to prescribe ox-- TAKE IT. But 40 mgs a day will ruin your lipids after a while.

Nolva sucks and would be completely pointless with Ox since it doesn't aromatize.

I never heard of anyone who continued to eat the same amount and aded 2 BIG BLAST's a day and didn't gain. It is impossible.