Steriods and the heart

[hulkamainia 119]

Whats ya'll thoughts on the heart and steriods? Will it grow significantly? If it does will it go back down when you cycle off? will cardio help or make worse? Supplements that can help?

Discuss!

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[stevesmi]

its funny you ask that. I just got my bloodwork today and my lipids are all in line across the board.. and I've been cycling for 4-5 years off and on and for my height I am carrying a shitload of mass on my small frame which should mean my lipids should be slightly strained.. but no they are not. I credit this to my daily walks and solid diet.

if you stay on steroids for long periods and don't give yourself a break then yes you will strain things. if you cycle correctly and have a solid diet and do some cardio (you don't have to do crazy cardio, just a 30 minute walk a day is fine) then you should be fine.

i encourage everyone to run bloods often and keep an eye on things. thats the only way to know for sure .. if your bloods come in shitty, then you better stay off and get healthy..

yes on cycle its normal to have some lipid strain.. thats what support supps are for.. also diet is very important on cycle. if you eat shitty fattening and fried food then yeah you are gonna have much worse strain

 

[Headholio]

There is data that roid users are likely to have left ventricular hypertrophy. LVH can be a marker for CVD risk, caused by high BP for example. However, LVH is also a common diagnosis among atheletes in general, and is thought (IIRC) to be a normal healthy adaptaion. So it is complicated.

There was a discussion about this a while back. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Headholio]

Here's a post I made last August:

I think its the heart contraction against higher blood pressure that occurs during heavy lifting that contributes to LVH. Then with AAS, you have more blood pressure increase and an anabolic state to encourage muscle growth.

But some studies show that LVH caused by resistance training is not the same as LVH caused by high blood pressure alone. If LVH results in reduced ventricular cavity size, like it does in a disease state, ejection fraction and cardiac output go down. but with resistance training, cavity size stays the same, and ejection fraction can actually increase.

So, I think that mild LVH is not anything to worry about in weight lifters. It isn't the same as unhealthy people with high blood pressure.

Here I just found this which differentiates healthy from unhealthy LVH pretty well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...n/00537.f1.jpg




http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...-oconnor-song-aint-978903-3.html#post13970313

 

[hulkamainia 119]

Thanks guys awesome info I can see how blood work plays a big role and an elevated LVC can mean alot of things let's keep it going!

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[Headholio]

This article says that LVH is accentuated by steroids and steroids are a direct cause of LVH separate from the normal enlargement seen in trained athletes.

Cardiac effects of anabolic steroids

This abstract talks about how LVH from disease can cause heart disfunction such as diastolic abnormalities, while LVH cause by "athletes heart" does not.

Diastolic function in various forms of left... [Int J Sports Med. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI


This abstract finds diastolic disfunction in patients who have LVH from steroid use:

Anabolic steroid use in body builders: an e... [Int J Sports Med. 1991] - PubMed - NCBI

It seems that steroid use may cause some unhealthy changes in the heart, and that LVH caused by steroid use may not be quivalent to the LVH seen in trained athletes.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Barring genetic susceptibility to issues above and beyond the "normal" we have to remember that even long term there is a huge difference between use and abuse.
Even blasting and cruising isn't abuse if your "cruise" is time on = time off and the cruise dose keeps your test levels in a reasonable range (around 1000ng/dl)
Bloods are a must. I will be taking an extended break after this summer because my bilirubin(bile secreted by the liver when RBC are broken down) is elevated. Not a bunch. But it still is. There are many reasons this could be the case. There are even positive side effects to having elevated levels believe it or not. But I want it to come back down.
People don't get medically involved enough when they use AAS. As Steve mentioned. Lipids are a huge thing. I myself go one step further. Every other year or so I get an echocardiogram(working ultrasound of the heart). That measures size, close estimate of weight, valve sizes and timing, blood flow through chambers, ventricle size, LVH ect... Just had one done a couple months ago and I was pleased it came back perfect.
I even got an abdominal ultrasound done a couple weeks ago just to make sure I didn't have any gallbladder issues (due to the elevated bilirubin) or gallstones. But it also checks the liver, kidneys ect...
You cant be too cautious. Most guys don't even do bloods let alone anything further.
Always take a lipid supplement when on AAS. Whether you need it or not. That's my philosophy. Either N2Guard or Lipid Stabil. They both work.

 

[bigbassturd]

Barring genetic susceptibility to issues above and beyond the "normal" we have to remember that even long term there is a huge difference between use and abuse.
Even blasting and cruising isn't abuse if your "cruise" is time on = time off and the cruise dose keeps your test levels in a reasonable range (around 1000ng/dl)
Bloods are a must. I will be taking an extended break after this summer because my bilirubin(bile secreted by the liver when RBC are broken down) is elevated. Not a bunch. But it still is. There are many reasons this could be the case. There are even positive side effects to having elevated levels believe it or not. But I want it to come back down.
People don't get medically involved enough when they use AAS. As Steve mentioned. Lipids are a huge thing. I myself go one step further. Every other year or so I get an echocardiogram(working ultrasound of the heart). That measures size, close estimate of weight, valve sizes and timing, blood flow through chambers, ventricle size, LVH ect... Just had one done a couple months ago and I was pleased it came back perfect.
I even got an abdominal ultrasound done a couple weeks ago just to make sure I didn't have any gallbladder issues (due to the elevated bilirubin) or gallstones. But it also checks the liver, kidneys ect...
You cant be too cautious. Most guys don't even do bloods let alone anything further.
Always take a lipid supplement when on AAS. Whether you need it or not. That's my philosophy. Either N2Guard or Lipid Stabil. They both work.

Where the hell have you been?

Good post and welcome back brother!

 

[Headholio]

Barring genetic susceptibility to issues above and beyond the "normal" we have to remember that even long term there is a huge difference between use and abuse.
Even blasting and cruising isn't abuse if your "cruise" is time on = time off and the cruise dose keeps your test levels in a reasonable range (around 1000ng/dl)
Bloods are a must. I will be taking an extended break after this summer because my bilirubin(bile secreted by the liver when RBC are broken down) is elevated. Not a bunch. But it still is. There are many reasons this could be the case. There are even positive side effects to having elevated levels believe it or not. But I want it to come back down.
People don't get medically involved enough when they use AAS. As Steve mentioned. Lipids are a huge thing. I myself go one step further. Every other year or so I get an echocardiogram(working ultrasound of the heart). That measures size, close estimate of weight, valve sizes and timing, blood flow through chambers, ventricle size, LVH ect... Just had one done a couple months ago and I was pleased it came back perfect.
I even got an abdominal ultrasound done a couple weeks ago just to make sure I didn't have any gallbladder issues (due to the elevated bilirubin) or gallstones. But it also checks the liver, kidneys ect...
You cant be too cautious. Most guys don't even do bloods let alone anything further.
Always take a lipid supplement when on AAS. Whether you need it or not. That's my philosophy. Either N2Guard or Lipid Stabil. They both work.

Good point about use vs abuse. The studies have seen have not gone far enough to specify the levels or duration or AAS use in their subjects. There are data out there showing AAS use is connected with some negative cardiovascular stuff, but I haven't seen any correlation between amount of use and extent of damage.
I also was reading one article that showed ex-users to have cardio health much closer to normal than current users. So it would seem the effects are at least partially reversible.

You are definitely going about it the right way to keep an eye on your health as much as possible.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Good point about use vs abuse. The studies have seen have not gone far enough to specify the levels or duration or AAS use in their subjects. There are data out there showing AAS use is connected with some negative cardiovascular stuff, but I haven't seen any correlation between amount of use and extent of damage.
I also was reading one article that showed ex-users to have cardio health much closer to normal than current users. So it would seem the effects are at least partially reversible.

You are definitely going about it the right way to keep an eye on your health as much as possible.

The heart along with the liver has a miraculous ability to heal itself over time.
But again, some people are just susceptible to certain things. You could have one guy do one 12 week cycle and get major LVH. I've seen guys post about it in the past. Where as some guys can actually abuse AAS for years and their heart is fine.
I've done 600mg wk for 10 mos straight before and again for 6 mos straight. Not that I'm advocating that because I wouldn't do it again. But got no ill effects from it other than some prostate enlargement while on that went away after.

^^^ On that note, guys, don't forget to get your PSA checked when you get your bloods done.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Where the hell have you been?

Good post and welcome back brother!

lol, I've been here. Almost every day. Just not posting. Getting some peace and quiet and working on getting huge.

 

[bigbassturd]

Me too bro just started teh juices again

Good to hear from you. PM me sometime man