Quantum theory

[anthrax]

Is the debate about quantum theory between Bohr and Einstein still relevant today?

 

[samoth]

You mean with Einstein looking for a unification theory or something else?

 

[anthrax]

You mean with Einstein looking for a unification theory or something else?

They both have different explanations of the Quantum Dilemma and I'm not aware of one theory being universally accepted

 

[samoth]

They both have different explanations of the Quantum Dilemma and I'm not aware of one theory being universally accepted

I gotta look up the details; one sec.

 

[anthrax]

Einstein maintained that physics must be able to "represent things themselves and not merely the probability of their occurrence"

he thought that physics must be deterministic while Bohr and Schrodinger thought otherwise

 

[samoth]

"On the side of Niels Bohr, we have the Copenhagen interpretation. This can be described as syncretic, with basic concepts the collapse of the wavefunction, nondeterminism given by the Born probability, and the correspondence principle. On the side of Albert Einstein, we have realism, determinism, causality, and locality."

Ahh, okay. I see some of that in non-text physics books, but never came across the debate in school anywhere. It's probably more of a science history thing.

All I know is that involving Einstein and QM was basically a failure, lol.

If one side is arguing probability and one is arguing against it, the side arguing probability would be the credited response.

 

[samoth]

Einstein maintained that physics must be able to "represent things themselves and not merely the probability of their occurrence"

he thought that physics must be deterministic while Bohr and Schrodinger thought otherwise

I think Bohr, and I think of his stupid atom picture they still teach kids to this day, lol. Probably 'cause I was in chem for so long. I always forget to put him in the physics category, lol.

Schrodinger was quantum mechanics. He is the father (err... maybe grandfather, lol) of QM as far as I am concerned.

 

[anthrax]

If one side is arguing probability and one is arguing against it, the side arguing probability would be the credited response.

Yep, it look like Einstein was plain wrong on this one

On the other side "The difficulty is not that quantum mechanics is probabilistic—that is something we apparently just have to live with. The real difficulty is that it is also deterministic, or more precisely, that it combines a probabilistic interpretation with deterministic dynamics."

Not sure what that means though ....

 

[samoth]

Yep, it look like Einstein was plain wrong on this one

On the other side "The difficulty is not that quantum mechanics is probabilistic—that is something we apparently just have to live with. The real difficulty is that it is also deterministic, or more precisely, that it combines a probabilistic interpretation with deterministic dynamics."

Not sure what that means though ....

Eeeerrrrgggg... umm, it has to do with, well, things having predetermined fates. Stuff gets more mind-bending with this junk, and the sense is solely in the mathematics.

Lemme see if I can find something explaining it well...

 

[chesty]

What it boils down to is that you can never know all the information about something such as a proton at one time. You can either know the momentum fully or the position fully, but never both at the same time. But you can know something about both at the same time and that is what the Heisenber Uncertainty principle is about.

One of the newer fields is QED or Quantum Electro Dynamics.

Another interesting tidbit is that at the moment 3 of the four forces have been unified into a single equation. Gravity is the only force not yet combined with the other three to form the single unified theory.

It was rumored that Einstein had indeed been able to do this and was freightened at not only the simplicity with which it was made, but at the implications it held as well so he destroyed his work so no one could duplicate it.