Point to lifting while eating below maintenance?

[MR. BMJ]

TIME UNDER TENSION!!!

I almost always lower the poundages and increase reps when dieting. My joints love me for it as well. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of benching 400 pounds is great, but I would rather be around for the long haul in life as well.

BMJ

 

[Travbedaman]

I think it`s a mistake to lower the poundages (much) while dieting..I think just lowering the volume is the way to go to keep strength and muscle mass levels up.

If you want to cut back on poundages for a week to rest your muscles, it would be most wise to do it during a higher calorie diet (because you won`t lose strength or mass, due to a higher anabolic state).

 

[Blood&Iron]

TIME UNDER TENSION!!!

I almost always lower the poundages and increase reps when dieting. My joints love me for it as well. Don't get me wrong, the feeling of benching 400 pounds is great, but I would rather be around for the long haul in life as well.

BMJ

Why would lifting "heavy" be a problem while dieting? References, please. I would agree with Travbedaman that volume should be reduced but I see no problem with lifting "normally", provided you're not doing something silly like restricting dietary fat to less than 10% of calories or anything equally stupid. Just for the record, I've been dieting for the past 5 weeks using a cyclical isocaloric diet and my strength has been increasing fairly steadily.

 

[cleverlandshark2001]

I'm about to post a whole new topic on this issue...very interesting.
Peace.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Why would lifting "heavy" be a problem while dieting? References, please. I would agree with Travbedaman that volume should be reduced but I see no problem with lifting "normally", provided you're not doing something silly like restricting dietary fat to less than 10% of calories or anything equally stupid. Just for the record, I've been dieting for the past 5 weeks using a cyclical isocaloric diet and my strength has been increasing fairly steadily.

My referment was for the joints specifically. I like lifting heavy as much as anyone, but some people cannot handle the heavy weight without their joints giving them problems on a hypocaloric diet. Therefore, to compensate for the loss, you have to blast the muscles from a different perspective, which for most is increasing the intensity by increasing the reps.

The whole point on a hypo diet is to maintain the muscle you have while losing the fat. You will not gain much, if any (especially if you are a vet lifter), muscle on a low calorie diet. I'm not talking about lifting pussy weight, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in the 4-6 rep range if you know what I mean. Something that I do is maybe lift lift lighter weights with more reps and add in heavy workouts every other week to every 2-3 weeks.

I must add, even moreso than dieting is that there are so many ways people can train, there is NO ONE WAY TO WORKOUT. There are too many variables that are involved. However, I do stay close to the basic movements as well.

I am also a big fan of using different rep sets to hit different muscle fibers. Duchaine was big on using different movements for each set involving sets that ioncorporate movements from different planes of motion, and I think I agree with this as well, as some of my best gains have come using a different exercise for each set.

And...last but not least, different strokes for different folks.

Do I still have to dig up some references??? Or did I clarify a little better?

BMJ

 

[Blood&Iron]

My referment was for the joints specifically. I like lifting heavy as much as anyone, but some people cannot handle the heavy weight without their joints giving them problems on a hypocaloric diet. Therefore, to compensate for the loss, you have to blast the muscles from a different perspective, which for most is increasing the intensity by increasing the reps.

The whole point on a hypo diet is to maintain the muscle you have while losing the fat. You will not gain much, if any (especially if you are a vet lifter), muscle on a low calorie diet. I'm not talking about lifting pussy weight, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in the 4-6 rep range if you know what I mean. Something that I do is maybe lift lift lighter weights with more reps and add in heavy workouts every other week to every 2-3 weeks.

I must add, even moreso than dieting is that there are so many ways people can train, there is NO ONE WAY TO WORKOUT. There are too many variables that are involved. However, I do stay close to the basic movements as well.

I am also a big fan of using different rep sets to hit different muscle fibers. Duchaine was big on using different movements for each set involving sets that ioncorporate movements from different planes of motion, and I think I agree with this as well, as some of my best gains have come using a different exercise for each set.

And...last but not least, different strokes for different folks.

Do I still have to dig up some references??? Or did I clarify a little better?

BMJ

I don't have any problem with the concept of switching rep ranges, etc for reasons of hypertrophy, but I still don't see any physiological reason why a calorie deficit would cause joint problems. Improper lifting technique and/or excessive volume? Yes. Calorie restriction? No(Of course I'm excluding starvations situations, etc.) So other than your experience, yes, I still need references to be convinced of this fact. From my experience, it is imperative to try to maintain, and if possible increase, one's poundages (The adaption will, of course, be primarily, if not completely, neurological.) to maintain muscle mass while dieting.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I don't have any problem with the concept of switching rep ranges, etc for reasons of hypertrophy, but I still don't see any physiological reason why a calorie deficit would cause joint problems. Improper lifting technique and/or excessive volume? Yes. Calorie restriction? No(Of course I'm excluding starvations situations, etc.) So other than your experience, yes, I still need references to be convinced of this fact. From my experience, it is imperative to try to maintain, and if possible increase, one's poundages (The adaption will, of course, be primarily, if not completely, neurological.) to maintain muscle mass while dieting.

I'll see what i can find as far as references go, however you can't deny the increased pains many people complain about when on an under maintenance calorie diet.

"Improper lifting technique and/or excessive volume?"

Most definately! I agree totally with this. However, many people get the concept that they will be able to lift the same amount of poundages as they could when following a higher calorie diet, then only to find out they can't. Ideally, if the diet is right, then most people should be able to maintain these levels, but due to cecreased liver and muscle glycogen as well as IGF and hormonal level declines, they are at a disadvantage. I really don't think many people will increase their lifts much if at all on a sub-maintenance diet.

I do agree that in order to keep an anabolic state that one should incorporate heavy weights to keep themselves primed. However, on a sub-maintenance diet this will in my opinion be totally directed towards decreasing muscle catabolism and not for an increase in much anabolism.

I don't think I am disagreeing with you much here...maybe my initial response was misleading as i do incorporate "some" heavy weight reps, but tend to cut it down to less weight and higher reps due to joint pains...as many people have to do. Really, I think a combination of both is ideal. I really don't like getting into debates over training as anything is basically game and seems to work as long as you know how to take into consideration other factors like hormonal and neurological changes and conditions.

I will agree that heavy weight is ideal for a more anabolic state of growth if one's body allows it....However, i don't necessarily think you need to go heavy each time you work that particular bodypart. Another thing that has to be taken into consideration is the fact that some muscles will grow better at low rep/heavy weights and some at high rep/less heavy weights. At the end of each set, whether high rep or low rep, the weight will be heavy.

Let me know what ya think about this....Agree or disagree?

BMJ

 

[Pharm Animal]

....However, i don't necessarily think you need to go heavy each time you work that particular bodypart. ....Agree or disagree?

BMJ

fuck yeah, i agree. this has turned into a very interesting discussion thread! thanks guys!

PA

 

[D00fy]

on my last diet to shed some fat i was eating lots of protein........... funny thing is i did lift hard real hard ,cardio hardly any but i did look more leaner and looked like i perserved my mass ,didn't loose lower stomach as much as i planned this diet i hope i do so

 

[Blood&Iron]

I'll see what i can find as far as references go, however you can't deny the increased pains many people complain about when on an under maintenance calorie diet.

I haven't done any surveys or anything, but in my experience and that of a few friends this is not the case. Not saying it isn't true, just that I haven't heard this before

"Improper lifting technique and/or excessive volume?"

Most definately! I agree totally with this. However, many people get the concept that they will be able to lift the same amount of poundages as they could when following a higher calorie diet, then only to find out they can't.

To me this is a sign that the person is doing something wrong. Generally, I pretty much maintain my poundages while dieting--though I *really* have to bust my ass--and recently have actually been increasing them. A friend of mine was also able to pull this off, though I thought his diet was shit(Basically, he was living on MRP's and oatmeal.)

Ideally, if the diet is right, then most people should be able to maintain these levels, but due to cecreased liver and muscle glycogen as well as IGF and hormonal level declines, they are at a disadvantage. I really don't think many people will increase their lifts much if at all on a sub-maintenance diet.
I do agree that in order to keep an anabolic state that one should incorporate heavy weights to keep themselves primed. However, on a sub-maintenance diet this will in my opinion be totally directed towards decreasing muscle catabolism and not for an increase in much anabolism.

I'd pretty much agree with this statement.

I don't think I am disagreeing with you much here...maybe my initial response was misleading as i do incorporate "some" heavy weight reps, but tend to cut it down to less weight and higher reps due to joint pains...as many people have to do. Really, I think a combination of both is ideal. I really don't like getting into debates over training as anything is basically game and seems to work as long as you know how to take into consideration other factors like hormonal and neurological changes and conditions.

I will agree that heavy weight is ideal for a more anabolic state of growth if one's body allows it....However, i don't necessarily think you need to go heavy each time you work that particular bodypart. Another thing that has to be taken into consideration is the fact that some muscles will grow better at low rep/heavy weights and some at high rep/less heavy weights. At the end of each set, whether high rep or low rep, the weight will be heavy.

I have some residual HIT tendencies that preclude me from using anything but "heavy" weights(But, I might define heavy differently. For me it just means, non-excessive reps, and going to failure. It's NOT neccesarily 3-5 reps.) But I'm thinking I might give German Body Composition a try in the next few weeks, since I REALLY need to give my body a break from ephedra, so that it actually does something, and at this point I don't think I could have a good "normal" workout without it(Really disturbing, but, oh well.)

Let me know what ya think about this....Agree or disagree?

BMJ