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If you don't believe Jesus Christ was/is God...

MM, I've been thinking about this I've read most of your posts over the years and I know how you feel about the Christian God. I am so glad that you have not made assumptions about me like most people do and hate me, I don't care about being popular, but I don't want to be friends with just a bunch of Christians.

From my perspective the idea of God not caring about me is depressing. I mean really depressing to me. My God may be immature and a bully to you but to me he is a pursuing lover, strong but jealous, a warrior but full of mercy, and a compassionate and protecting father. I'm in love w/ Him, He's never left me and He can't die. I know I sound insane, I'm blind :lmao: Those are just the human words how to describe Him but He is infinite, outside our human descriptions and can't be put in a box, thats just one side to His character. Anyone who knows me would know that this romanticized version of God combined with the order and structure of the book is a perfect fit for me. I believe that the bible is a mirror, a spiritual book and we get what we want from it. Maybe its not the be all end all, but it's something to me, something precious. Who is speaking to me when I read it? Is it God or is it me? Some version of me on the inside that I don't know..something!

Who knows where I'll be 10 years from now. I don't go around making threads trying to discredit other religions or beliefs or lifestyles, and I've never tried to convert anyone. Maybe all of our paths lead to the same place, maybe I'll see you in the afterlife, or maybe there is a next lifetime? I know I have a soul and I can't believe my purpose in life is to just live, breathe air and die :rose:

indeed u have a beautiful soul.
 
I'm like, 9 drinks in ceo, I'll answer u 2moro. I'm sick as a dog and obv can't have cough syrup in the house so rum is going to get me to sleep tonight

thanks manhood, that is an awesome compliment, can't say I've heard that before :rainbow:
 
Maybe, as MM suggested, God isn't as involved as some would like us to think he is?

Is it perhaps the prospect of eternal punishment vs. eternal life that makes it so important to want to believe a certain way? Interesting that the "eternal" state of the soul is not a concept found in the original hebrew or greek. There are single words in the Hebrew, that have been translated as many as sixty or more different ways in the KJV for example. Perhaps the only word in english that versatile is the word, "Fuck" as it can take on so many different meanings. :) (that was a lolz, btw).

The Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion have basically the same meaning. Literally, they are "age" or "age during". NIV, KJV, NASB...most popular translations, translate them as, "eternal," "everlasting," or "forever".

Matthew 25:46 -

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (NIV)

However, literally it is:

And these shall go away to punishment age-during [or, age], but the righteous to life age-during [or, age].

So, is hell everlasting? Or was the earlier idea of a temporary purgatory more correct?

When your kid does something wrong do you punish them for a short period of time, or do you decide to punish them forever?

If god is more loving than we could even fathom, why would he want to punish us to an extent so horrible we couldn't imagine, for a term of eternity? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!

Like I said in my post about the manuscripts...I don't care what the Greek or Hebrew said. The bible I have here in my home works just fine. I don't know what I believe about hell. I'm not sure its a literal place of fire and brimstone and I'm not sure it's eternal. It does not matter if its literal or if its temporary or eternal. The idea of God not raping our hearts and focing us to spend eternity with him is not hard for me to grasp. Hell was not prepared for us; it was for Satan and his angels. People choose to be seperated from God. How can you ask if its fair if God sends people to Hell (even for eternity) when He's done everything He can to stop people from going there?

Just because I believe the bible is true and inspired does not mean I take it all literally
 
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Okay after years of JG telling me to read Misquoting Jesus (and me ignorning him) I have finally bought it and I'm reading it right now. I'm not done, I have just a little bit left it took me longer to read through because of its smarty pants scholarly feel. :nerd: We should be able to explain not just what we believe or why, and if we can't its probably not worth believing. 1 Peter 3:15

First, reading the introduction made me sick to my stomach. This wasn't some man on the outside of our faith looking in, but someone who had had the experience and who had turned his back on it. I can't believe a God that exists couldn't preserve His words, I just can't believe in THAT God. If the bible is not infallable, I have to abandon my faith in the Christian God, I have to because my whole faith is around that book, a holy book, my experiences have not been seeing spiritual miracles, its been life changing moments that have happened while I was reading. As I started to read, I began to relax, I knew that this wasn't new information and I had been taught already how to deal with people like him.

Ehrman starts off by assuming that those that believe in the bible as being infallable believe that the Greek texts are infallable. We can't believe that the original Greek texts are infallable because that bible never existed. It has never existed, never been seen, never been placed together in one book. They teach that in some bible colleges that the oldest original manuscripts are the best, thats a mistake. Ehrman believed Lie - the original greek text is infallable inspired word of God

It is no secret that there is not some mystical original Greek text. I'm so glad that I was taught in a true bible believing church when I was a kid, the megachurch that I left, by the pastor that I told to fuck off because he told my parents I was a lost cause..it is because of him I have a room full of books on church history..and some of the stuff I had forgotten

ANYWAY, moving on.....The Best Texts Say...

Erasmus has a manuscript sitting in his lap, Ehrman is telling me that what Erasmus has at that moment, it is unreliable, faulty. While I was reading this book, I had out every translation of the bible I had, the ones I used the most were the NIV and KJV. The big additons that Ehrman found were noted in the footnotes or before the verses in every translation I had besides the KJV and NKJV. People should know this and know how to deal with this. Ehrman does not know how to deal because he believes the best texts are what? I should have faith in what he says are the best texts? The only way I can access the infallable Word of God is by piecing together a book that never existed ever at any point?

How to deal: There may be 5,000 or so different pieces of manuscript but they all fall into 3 (in my mind ealier in another thread I thought two, but it is actually 3) categories

1. Alexandria
2. Rome
3. Antioch

The bible ends in 90 AD (Rev) but it does not leave us to be guideless up until today, the book of Acts lays out the manuscripts in advance. This is a direction I don't have time to go down right now, but I can :rainbow: So we move on to another lie that Ehrman has accepted: inspriation is only in the originals.

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works

Did Timothy have the original bible? Does anyone really think that he was reading the original copy? No. But it syas that he had the scripture and it was holy. People think this book is just a text book but it's not, its a living thing, its ALIVE. It is the only book I've read that when I begin to read it, it begins to read ME.

What good is a God that might inspire some original document but can't preserve it? What good is that God to me? Did God not use a human being to bring his son into the world, and even though he used a human being, I believe that Jesus was God even though he came from a human. How could He not do that with His Word?

Now I believe that what Erasmus had was the best manuscript. He had pieces of manuscript from the Antiochian family and I believe those pieces were what God wanted him to have; the texts out of Antioch. If your bible is a translation that came from Antioch I believe you have the inspired infallable Word of God in your hands.
 
Like I said in my post about the manuscripts...I don't care what the Greek or Hebrew said. The bible I have here in my home works just fine. I don't know what I believe about hell. I'm not sure its a literal place of fire and brimstone and I'm not sure it's eternal. It does not matter if its literal or if its temporary or eternal. The idea of God not raping our hearts and focing us to spend eternity with him is not hard for me to grasp. Hell was not prepared for us; it was for Satan and his angels. People choose to be seperated from God. How can you ask if its fair if God sends people to Hell (even for eternity) when He's done everything He can to stop people from going there?

Just because I believe the bible is true and inspired does not mean I take it all literally

Maybe you should care what the original Greek and Hebrew say? Especially if you believe it is pertinent to the eternal state of your soul. Because all you are reading are translations, most likely (your NIV) with many errors. So maybe god can preserve a perfect copy. How do you know which one that is? If another "authorized translation" of the bible comes out tomorrow and it has contradictions with "the bible you have in your home" is the new one still god's perfectly preserved word? It's possible, with however many translations you have in your home, that you have different bibles with very different ideas about hell (my earlier example).

If your bible says hell is eternal, how do you say that you are not sure if hell is eternal, if you believe "the bible you have in your home" to be the perfectly preserved word of god? Which I assume that is what you are saying since you say it's good enough and it's the one you read and base your beliefs off of.

So, if your girl one day later in life chooses to be separated from you, disowns you, no longer considers you family, and got herself into a place of torment, and you had the power to save her from this, would you let her stay there forever? Say it was a year mandatory of prison, and if after that year you came for her she would be released to you, but if after that year you did not come for her she would stay there until she died. Now of course you had done everything you could to stop her from going there...would you go for her? I know you would. Are you then better than god?

It reminds me of the example of the prodigal son. Now THAT was a loving father! He let his son go his own way and make mistakes, and deny him, but when the son returned the father took him back with a celebration and restored all he had and more.
 
Now I believe that what Erasmus had was the best manuscript. He had pieces of manuscript from the Antiochian family and I believe those pieces were what God wanted him to have; the texts out of Antioch. If your bible is a translation that came from Antioch I believe you have the inspired infallable Word of God in your hands.

None of this matters if you don't care what the Hebrew and Greek said. :whatever:
 
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