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LiftingDukkha
New member
I don't see a problem with a belt (though I don't wear one either -- want to build the core as byproduct of no belt). But this whole argument gets a bit tired -- Ever hear of "slippery slope logic?" If one side of an argument isn't 100% lock-tight absolute, then someone argues that it necessarily leads to the complete opposite thing. If some drugs are legal, then all drugs must be legal. If some terrorists are tortured, soon America will be Nazi Germany. If some guns are controlled, soon all guns will be taken away. If you wear a belt in a PL meet, you're absolutely no different than someone wearing triple-ply everything & getting 400 extra lbs. on his squat & 300 extra lbs on his bench. Insane. Raw is raw, & a little common sense IMO.
blut wump
New member
I thought I invented slippery-slope logic, athough we used to call it reductio ad absurdium. It's a perversion of its principles to suggest that the argument that because you've strayed a little from your principles doesn't imply that you are all bad then we should infer that you're sparkling clean.
If they tout themselves as "100% Raw Powerlifting" then I expect better than 95% raw.
I see nothing really wrong with a belt either but they should get off their high horse if they're not lifting in a loose t-shirt and some loose shorts or baggies.
If they tout themselves as "100% Raw Powerlifting" then I expect better than 95% raw.
I see nothing really wrong with a belt either but they should get off their high horse if they're not lifting in a loose t-shirt and some loose shorts or baggies.
silver_shadow
New member
^^^blut wump said:
like the man said
The_Monster
New member
blut wump said:
Thats my problem with these "raw" federations. They end up being not-too-true to what they preach and end up being litle more than a place for "raw" people to bitch about "Well, If I wore a shirt and a belt and wraps I could probably bench 1000lbs too!"
Raw powerlifting is the equivalent of natural bodybuilding. 50% underachievers, 50% liars and 95% of that seems to be excuse makers.
Ive had this argument in the gym before, and I have found that this is the best way to settle it: I tell em "I'll take my shirt off, and we'll each get on a bench. Lets each have a spotter hand 600lbs out to us and we'll just hold it at arms length for a few seconds." The same goes for the squat. "We'll both be raw, throw 750-800lbs on, lift it off the pin and step back with it... wait a couple seconds and walk it back in."
That usually sends them back into their corner.
I have no grudge against raw lifting. But if you want to lift raw, accept what that means and move on... dont knock assisted lifting to validate your lower numbers. Lifting gear is a tool, and it takes a lot of work to get big numbers out of it. It takes a lot of specific training and time...
wnt2bBeast
New member
The_Monster said:
hhahhaha how true is that..gotta love the "raw" guys who are afraid to get under the weight with equipment but yet are very quick to say i bench 5 raw so that means i can do 8 in a shirt yet theyve never eventried it..
I went to the Nerb this past weekend..all raw lifting although not drug testes and i was very impressed wit the lifting
Big Donnie Thompson took an 870 squat pretty fucking deep if you ask me but was called on depth
numerous 600 benches
bear in mind that most if not all of tese guys normally wear GEAR- so what does that tell you? these guys are strong in and out of the equipment..I know people bitch about whos getting a gazillion punds out of theri shirt but honestyl i dont think there are any 300 pound benchers who are benching 600 at the top levels.. you have to be strong period otherwise all that gear + all the weight is jsut gong to lead to an injury and a serious one at that
B
BadboyAl
Guest
Wearing nothing but a belt is about as raw as you can get. The suits are basic wrestling singlets not tight 1ply or anything. All winners get drug tested also. I think thats pretty fair.
But this post was me looking for a raw federation. Not an argument about lifting raw or not. I dont care wtf you do.
Since everyone is throwing there 2cent in I will to. I think equipment is fuckn stupid! I think all equipted lifters are very strong. But its stupid to pretend your lifting 600lbs when you can only do 450 without a suit. Seems fake to me.
I'm dont compete in a federation as of yet, but if i did I would go raw. That said I dont care if others wish to wear equipment. Do whatever you like!
But this post was me looking for a raw federation. Not an argument about lifting raw or not. I dont care wtf you do.
Since everyone is throwing there 2cent in I will to. I think equipment is fuckn stupid! I think all equipted lifters are very strong. But its stupid to pretend your lifting 600lbs when you can only do 450 without a suit. Seems fake to me.
I'm dont compete in a federation as of yet, but if i did I would go raw. That said I dont care if others wish to wear equipment. Do whatever you like!
The_Monster
New member
People like to see the big numbers, thats what draws the crowd! Thats also why you dont see many raw federations... who needs a whole federation of guys lifting what you can go into the local gym and see someone lift?
Track and Field has advanced because of better implements, so has skiing and pretty much any sport you can think of. Who would want to go back to the days when football players wore leather helmets and played a very dull, tedious game? No one.
There will always be "purists" who want things the way they were, but powerlifting is just like any other sport... advances in equipment make it more of a draw to a crowd.
Natural bodybuilding will never be that big for the same reasons... Aside from the people who are lying what do you have? Some 165lb guy thats ripped? Ive seen crackheads that size who are ripped, and Im not paying $25 + to get into a show to see them.
Powerlifting is the same way. People want to see something impressive.
The gear is difficult to learn to use, and is a skill unto itself. Most people arent going to bench 450 raw and get 600 in a shirt, most people might get 50lbs out of their shirt. The people making the big numbers in gear are like artists who have developed their skill at using the tool. Its not pretending. No one is saying that this is their raw weight. They compete in a federation that uses the gear, and that is their record.
Ive never heard a lifter who uses equipment knock a raw lifter for lifting raw, but the first thing you hear out of a raw lifters mouth when someone mentions a record is "I could do that if I wore all that gear!"
All that does is belittle raw lifting and make it seem subpar.
I used to lift raw. Now I enjoy the challange of learning to use my gear... and I'll take my "fake" 800lb squat over the next guys raw 550 any day. But thats just me... we actually train a couple of raw lifters and they have my full repect.
Track and Field has advanced because of better implements, so has skiing and pretty much any sport you can think of. Who would want to go back to the days when football players wore leather helmets and played a very dull, tedious game? No one.
There will always be "purists" who want things the way they were, but powerlifting is just like any other sport... advances in equipment make it more of a draw to a crowd.
Natural bodybuilding will never be that big for the same reasons... Aside from the people who are lying what do you have? Some 165lb guy thats ripped? Ive seen crackheads that size who are ripped, and Im not paying $25 + to get into a show to see them.
Powerlifting is the same way. People want to see something impressive.
The gear is difficult to learn to use, and is a skill unto itself. Most people arent going to bench 450 raw and get 600 in a shirt, most people might get 50lbs out of their shirt. The people making the big numbers in gear are like artists who have developed their skill at using the tool. Its not pretending. No one is saying that this is their raw weight. They compete in a federation that uses the gear, and that is their record.
Ive never heard a lifter who uses equipment knock a raw lifter for lifting raw, but the first thing you hear out of a raw lifters mouth when someone mentions a record is "I could do that if I wore all that gear!"
All that does is belittle raw lifting and make it seem subpar.
I used to lift raw. Now I enjoy the challange of learning to use my gear... and I'll take my "fake" 800lb squat over the next guys raw 550 any day. But thats just me... we actually train a couple of raw lifters and they have my full repect.
Illuminati
New member
BadboyAl said:
ADFPF - american drug free powerlifting fed
LiftingDukkha
New member
I live in a pretty remote area so I don't see the same sorts of gym rats most of you other guys probably see. Where I live, I'm almost the only powerlifter I know. I don't compete, I just do it to stay in shape. I have no incentive to lift with gear nor to lie about any numbers I make. Indeed, you won't find me bragging about any numbers. I just hang around places like this to learn as much as I can.
So I really doubt I'm on a "high horse" about raw numbers. As I said I don't even compete. 500, raw or geared, in Bench seems like a fantastic number & someday I hope to achieve it.
Nonetheless, most people who think there's no real difference between lifting with only a belt, vs. lifting with gear, are simply delusional.
So I really doubt I'm on a "high horse" about raw numbers. As I said I don't even compete. 500, raw or geared, in Bench seems like a fantastic number & someday I hope to achieve it.
Nonetheless, most people who think there's no real difference between lifting with only a belt, vs. lifting with gear, are simply delusional.
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