Cyclical Isocaloric Diet? Opinions? (Par Deus)

[HarmsWayBC]

Monstar,
I would simply go to www.avantlabs.com and read Par Deus' articles....

I think you may be overthinking these issues a bit.....i do so quite often myself!
Experiment....it seems to me that you are doing what I did, and I had quite a bit of success......

Stick to the Isocaloric diet, if u don't like the feel of it, switch it around maybe to a 40-30-30 or a 50-30-20......

The only thing I can say for sure is that avoiding fat on the refeed days is essential to not regaining fat.......so go to the IHOP and chow down on pancakes and syrup.....enjoy the simple carbs and pass on the fat.

 

[MonStar1023]

Yeah I what your saying bro thanks for the reply. I just feel like I am definitely doing something wrong if I dont know EXACTLY what specifically I should be doing ya know?

I am going to stick with something like 36 hours dietin and maybe a 12 hours refeeding. Something along those lines I havnt decided yet...

Day 1- (rest) AM cardio
Day 2- (rest) AM cardio, begin carb-up immediately after cardio - train in the afternoon

Par Deus-
What do you think of this approach? Would this be a good idea or no? Help me out bro!! I am going to divide it up 33% protein, 33% carbs, 33% fat. Dieting days will be 2550 calories, 200g protein, 200g carbs, 90g fat. Refeed days will be 5000 calories, 225g protein, 600-800g carbs, minimal fat.


What do you think of this bro? Because I am going to be piling the carbs on the refeed part of the diet. I probably will be taking in around 600g carbs PREworkout, and then after I train maybe 200-300g carbs throughout the rest of the evening. Something along those lines. What do you think?

Also another thing that I wanted to comment on is on Day 2, when I begin my carb-up I am going to ingest ALL simple carbohydrates until after my workout, where Ill have dextorse + maltodextrin combo, and then take in ALL complex carbs.

 

[MonStar1023]

Qs For Par Deus

Par Deus-
Okay bro a few questions that I am hoping you could PLEASE answer..

#1 For fat loss, what is my best bet for how many days of dieting and how many days/hours refeeding. You said 36 hours dieting and 12 hours refeeding - is this my best bet for maximum fat loss?

#2 What kind of specific macronutrient breakdown should each diet day be?

#3 For the refeed I am assuming 1g protein per pound of bodyweight, and the rest high-glycemic carbs with minimal fat? This is just an assumption. I am not sure if you recommend switching over to slow-burning, low-glycemic carbs 1/2 way through the refeed.

#4 What kind of muscle-building supplements do you recommend? (e.g.- creatine, glutamine, whey protein, etc.) For the refeed do you suggest loading with creatine, and then on the dieting days maintaining the creatine?

#5 What type of training routine would best suit this type of diet? You said 36 hours -> 12 hours refeed. Would it be best to train during the 36 hours and then take a day off?

#6 What about cardio? Should I do it every morning? How does cardio correlate with the refeed days.

I respect what you say Par Deus more than almost anyone else so please help me out and be specific. I know you probably think I am getting annoying but just please answer these questions.

 

[MS]

At the risk of being TOTALLY non-helpful I will suggest that OPTIMAL dieting is a completely zen/ personal thing. Asking anyone for precise ratios or methods is inappropriate for anyone other than a very small gasshopper. You have the formulas. You have the concepts. You have the brain?? Now find out what works for YOU. It's a feel thing. If you can't feel it or see it for yourself then hire yourself a trainer or guru to help you through your grasshopper years. There is no shortcut for experience and consultation.

 

[MonStar1023]

MS-
Yeah I understand what your sayin bro. I am just afraid that as you stated I do not understand what I am doing. I have a pretty good understanding of the diet yes.. but I do no have the experience or the knowledge that you and Par Deus, and a few other members of these boards have.

I am trying to go by the feel of things and after all of the diets that I have tried, the one that I like best is honestly the CKD I think or a similar diet. But as it is stated, only one INTENSE workout can be perforemed per week on this diet. (day after carb-up) where your pumps are incredible etc.

Also another aspect is that the refeed is supposeded to be 50% higher than maintenance or something along those lines. 5000 calories is going to have a BIG problem getting into my body in a 12-hour period.. shit that comes out to like 8000 calories a meal or maybe even more. Comes out to like 35g of protein, and around 175g of carbs PER meal! Talk about overfeeding shit.

 

[MonStar1023]

bump for Par Deus...

 

[MonStar1023]

Par Deus-
I dont know whatsup with the diet but I am on 2nd day and I feel so fucking fat its unbelievable. I have never in my life felt so soft and flabby.

I have been binged for a few months just WAY too much and especially the last couple of days.


I understand the rationale behind this diet but one day using 20% below maintenance for isocaloric then 50% above maintenance for refeed just seems to me like it would result in fat-gain.. I am going for some serious fat-loss and you and a few others specifally said that a cyclical isocaloric diet was the way to go..

Also pretty much anythin goes on refeed days as long as its low-fat am I correct? Soda, sugar candies, etc.?

 

[Blood&Iron]

Par Deus-
I dont know whatsup with the diet but I am on 2nd day and I feel so fucking fat its unbelievable. I have never in my life felt so soft and flabby.

I have been binged for a few months just WAY too much and especially the last couple of days.


I understand the rationale behind this diet but one day using 20% below maintenance for isocaloric then 50% above maintenance for refeed just seems to me like it would result in fat-gain.. I am going for some serious fat-loss and you and a few others specifally said that a cyclical isocaloric diet was the way to go..

Also pretty much anythin goes on refeed days as long as its low-fat am I correct? Soda, sugar candies, etc.?

Since I tend to be a wordy bastard and PMs are limited to a 1000 characters I'll add here what I didn't have room to include in the PM. First, soda, most candy etc. uses high-fructose corn syrup which is a less than ideal carb. Smarties and pixie sticks are almost pure dextrose with no fructose and should work well. I bought a couple of bags of smarties myself but you've got to eat 5 rolls to get just 25g of carbs--ughhh, so I've switched to using Ultra Fuel, as its mostly maltodextrin, for my refeeds.

As for the questions in your PM here's a lengthier response. First, Lyle McDonald and Elzi Volk, both well respected people in nutrition, have said this type of diet is best for already moderately lean people. I'm not sure what you mean by flabby, but if you're bodyfat is significantly higher than 15%, this is probably not the ideal approach. Also from what I understand the higher your bodyfat the less problem you'll have with leptin levels dropping off. So you're probably right to do more infrequent refeeds. As you're bodyfat nears single digits more frequent/longer refeeds may be called for. I've been using a 2:1 ratio of diet to refeed days simply because I want to minimize muscle loss, and am trying to be gradual in my approach--not because my bodyfat is all that low(It isn't.) The 1st week I lost about 3lbs, and my strength went up at every workout. This week my weight didn't drop at all--although, when I weighed myself yesterday I was down another 4lbs(Probably just dehydration though) Obviously, the fact that I went from 4500cal a day to 3000cal affected my week one results. I also think I've been getting too much fat on refeed days. I may reduce the frequency of my refeeds to once every 36hours instead of once every 24hours, and I also may need to reduce my calories on the diet days. However, I only plan on changing one thing at a time though so I can really determine the optimal way to approach such a diet. This week the only changed I'll make is a reduced frequency of refeeds along with less fat on the refeed days(Okay, this is two changes. So sue me.) If you're interested I'll let you know how things go. Good luck.

 

[Par Deus]

MonStar,

As the other poster said, you just don't seem to actually listen to the answers to your question. I have addressed everything you have asked in this thread either on MFW, in this post, or in our PM conversation from a couple of weeks ago.

ParDeus