CKD & refeeds and other diet questions

[Millie]

Hi all,

can someone answer some diet and exercise related questions for me please

1. How long does it generally take the body to get used to a certain diet? How often should one rotate the p/c/f % in a diet to continue to lose body fat?

2. How can you tell that you are overtraining? When you realize you have been overtraining what should you do... not do any weights and cardio for a few days?

3. When you are trying to decide on how long a refeed period should be, what is more important... the number of days you have been low-carbing so far, or the number of days you will be low-carbing after the refeed.... i.e. (the numbers I am using in this example are arbitrary) say you are at 14-15% BF and you have been CKD type low-carbing for 12 days, how many hours/days should your refeed period be, if you plan to low-carb for 6-7 days before the next refeed and how long should the second refeed be?

4. Is it a good idea to mix your low-carb periods (say eat low-carb for 2 weeks, then refeed, then low-carb for 1 week, then refeed, then low-carb for 10 days etc.) in order to trick your body into not getting used to a regular/scheduled low-carb + refeed cycle?

5. What books and sites would you recommend I read to get more info on healthy/clean dieting and training?


Thanks guys and sorry for all the questions. As I said in one of my previous posts, I am a newbie to all this and I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so that I do everything right Please be patient with me and don't flame me

Millie

 

[diamonddiceclay]

do a search for mauro dipasquale's writings-he's a very smart man when it comes to diet-he wrote the anabolic diet and the metabolic diet

 

[HarmsWayBC]

After 12 days of low carb dieting, i think 48 hours would be needed for a sufficient refeed.....calories would need to be very high, probably higher than you think..mostly coming from carbs, protein, and keeping fat at a bare minumum.....

People with lower body fat need more frequent refeeds.....if you are under or at 10% BF you probably need one every 3 days....more than that could evry 5 or 7 days...we're talking 20-50% above maintainance calories....not diet cals, but maintainance cals.......

go to www.avantlabs.com.read Par Deus' articles on leptin in issues #3, and #4

 

[Millie]

thanks HarmsWay,

I have read Par Deus' articles on leptin, but they are a little too technical and I am not getting a lot of the information

I have done a lot of research, but I have come across a lot of controversial information (some articles/books say one thing, other say exactly the opposite) or the information is filled with so many technical terms that it is hard for me to grasp, since I am still not that familiar with this topic.

That's why I asked all these questions here, because I wanted to get people's personal experiences and opinions. Plus I think that everyone here is so knowledgable on the subject.


Anyone else have more detailed answers or information or tips or suggestion? Please?

 

[Hoffmeister]

As far as leptin and refeeds, you can also check out these:

http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/010515/010515-haycock-howz-it-work.htm

http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/010115/010115-volk-body-talk.htm

Also, if you have the time, here are a bunch of threads dealing with leptin/refeeds:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=L...h&meta=site=groups&group=misc.fitness.weights

As far as training, I'd start here:

http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html

 

[HarmsWayBC]

Millie,
If u are a new trainer/dieter, i first say clean up your diet if u already have not. This means cu out unecessary sugars (except for post workout) and make sure you eat 1 g of protein per pound of bodyweight each day..

depending on your weight, your dieting calories would be 12-15 cals per/lb. of bodyweight and 20 cals/lb. of bw or more for refeeds...eat good carb sources like oatmeal, brown rice, whole grain cereals and breads.....try to get good fats like nuts, olive oil, peanuts.....

If you are say, 20% bf, then i'd refeed once a week....on the refeeds, keep the fat as low as possible and pack in the carbs, mosty simple carbs, or the ones u wouldn't eat on dieting days.....

Follow those links or visit Hoffmeister's web site......it is a great resource, and he has some great knowledge!

 

[Millie]

HarmsWay

Thanks again HarmsWay and thanks Hoffmeister for the links.

I am fairly new to training/dieting. I got serious about it this June. I have already cleaned up my diet, thanks to all the info I have read on this board.

I have been following a CKD for the past 3 months, so it is not new to me. The reason that I asked all these questions is that I noticed that in the past 3 weeks, I only start seeing/feeling any fat loss results after the 5 day of low-carbing, so I have increased my low-carbing days to 8-9 days with a 12-15 hour carb-up.

So, I was basically looking for suggestions from people who have been on a CKD diet and/or people who are experts on keto diets like Mr. X, Par Deus, and all the others.

Just in case, here are my stats:
24 year old female;
5'3; 125lbs; 13% BF

My goal is to get to 120lbs with 10-11% BF.

1 more thing... any tips/suggestions/recommendation on how I could get into ketosis faster after a carb-up? Also, is there anything I can do to get rid of the water bloat faster?

thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it,

Millie

 

[Millie]

and a question for diamond...

hey diamond,

you recommended I read mauro dipasquale's book on the anabolic and metabolic diets.

Can you tell me what the difference is between the 2 diets?

Do you know any Canadian sites that sell the book? Whenever I order from a US site/online store, they ship with UPS and then I get hit really hard (something like an additional $40-$50 for every $100 of the value of the parcel) by customs and brokarage fees. So I am really looking to avoid that.

Thanks

 

[MR. BMJ]

Holy Schmoly Millie, you sound like you are in great shape for a female. Congratulations on your progress. Actually, you are really close to your goals as 2-3% bodyfat loss should not be to hard of a problem if you give it a little time.

1. How fast the body adapts to a particular eating pattern is a rather hard question to answer as there are so many different factors involved that could merit a whole book of writings. I do know that it adapts fairly quick to answer your question. The weekend carb-ups will help in this regard to some effect or another.

2. Overtraining? I'm not sure, I think this is the only area where I am a little different than Mr. X (please correct me if I am wrong here X...that is if you are really back). I generally only do weight training on Monday/Tuesday/Saturday. If i train more than this, I find it to be working agaist me. Half the body on Monday, and the other half on Tuesday. Whole body workout on Saturday. Now, if you find that you are still sore after your carb-up and if your lifts start to decrease dramatically, then this is a good indication that you are overtraining. Either cut back a bit on your friday whole body workout or increase your carb-up. In regards to cardio, I usually have no problems doing it throughout the week, but if you are doing it excessively, then maybe you might want to cut back some. I also noticed that you are following a longer ketogenic phase...you may want to cu back on it a bit and try concentrating on your goals of getting into ketosis faster. There are a couple of things you can do for this...i'll do this under a different number.

3. Refeed? Ultimately, you want to stay in the carb-up as long as possible before glucose starts getting shuttled into fat stores. To figure this out, it is generally something that the dieter needs to figure out on their own. For example, BodyOpus by Dan Duchaine requires a 48 hour carb-up, and at this time length, I will gain back a little fat and LOTS of water. However, if I cut it down to a 24-30 hour carb-up (which by effect, will increase the ketogenic phase...hence the friday to saturday switch), then I do not have these problems. To answer this question correctly is really impossible as everone will differ on their insulin sensitivity, but I will admit that I have never seen anyone gain fat with a carb-up of only 24 hours or thereabouts.

4. Possibly, as the determining factor in most diets is how much you are consuming to how much you are losing. It might work as long as you are not eating over your daily maintenance levels. However, I find it easier to just stick to a basic CKD than to make it all fancied up, its hard enough to adjust back between the carb-up to the ketogenic phase after eating all them carbs (differs between individuals obviously). However, keep us posted if you try this.

5. Books? "BodyOpus" by Duchaine. "the Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald, and of course those of us here on the diet board .

6. Ways to get into ketosis faster: There are a couple of things.

a.) Don't eat anything after your last carb-meal of the carb-up until the following morning after cardio. Likewise, these last few meals of the carb-up should be small and high GI like liquids whey with water and glucose/maltodextrin drinks.

b.) Use glucose disposal agents like ALA, glucophage/metformin, cinnamon, chromium, magnesium, etc...

c.) Train most of your body at the beginning of the ketogenic phase of the diet so that glycogen stores can get depleted faster. That is another reason why i break up my workout days between Monday and Tuesday. Your muscle glycogen stores will get depleted faster than prolonging these workouts to later in the week. Also you'll be stronger on these days since glycogen will still be higher. I will usually incorporate 2 short cardio sessions on both of these days to further quicken my decent into ketosis. cardio really helps in depleting the liver of its glycogen, which as you should know is the main factor in establishing ketosis. Therefore, I will do one bout in the morning and one in the evening. Likewise, the sooner in the day you do you workout with weights, then the sooner they will be depleted as well.

d.) This should probably be higher up on the list, but try eating a higher ratio of fat to protein. Raising your fat percentage to 80-85% will get you into ketosis faster than that of a lower percentage. And of course, eat as few of carbs as possible.

e.) Try using an ECY or NCY fat burning stack. I usually only use these while in the ketogenic phase of the diet, and lay off on the weekends. However, I will add in Tyrosine over the weekends to help with any kind of downregulation of catecholamines.

f.) Dont eat too much...lol, often overlooked.

that's all i can think of right now.

MR. BMJ

 

[Millie]

BMJ

Hehe, thanks for the compliment and the detailed response, MR. BMJ (my only "Elite friend" ). You have been nothing but helpful and friendly and patient with me, even when my questions have been silly and annoying .
I have read a lot of your other posts on the forum and you sound like a very knowledgeable guy and your posts are always very detailed and informative. Is this the field that you are studying now? By the way, how did your exams go?

I must say I am quite pleased with my progress myself. I admit it was difficult when I got into it in the beginning, and it took a lot of dedication. But now I am feeling better than ever, and I can't imagine of going back to my old life style of eating a non-clean diet and not training. This is another reason why I want to get as much informed and educated on this subject.

Thanks again, I really appreciate all your help