Who are you listening to ?

[it's inspired by wnt2bBeast's thread but not aimed at anyone]

I've noticed that most people think that the bigger guys or those who lift the heavier weights detain the ultimate truth whether it be about training, diet, "supplements" or wathever subject more or less related to the gym

If big guys can be very knowledgeable it's neither a prerequisite, nor a guarantee !

There are huge freaks who have no clue about proper nutrition
and skinny guys who can give you the best advice about routines, exercices and juice

and usually the big bastards that show off the most are not the ones you should listen to

Ive learned alot from my uncle, who was massive at 280lbs and 23" arms at 12% bodyfat. Always been an inspiration. Id train with him in a tank top even though it made me feel like absolute shit when I was 17. That was always a humbling experience. Teaches you to look to the future rather then the present. Id keep the same weights on the machines he was using too. I was driven! When it comes down to it though, ultimately I do what works for me specifically. I take the best of what someone has to offer and I take parts of other advice and routines. Im also training naturally now, so the same things dont apply to me the same way. Its very different without AAS. That and the differences between individuals is great as well. So ultimately I try to listen to the way my body responds to different things. I cant hold as much food as many, because of my fucked up intestines, so I have to go about things in a different way. Im also very unconventional in my training and sleep schedule. Im nocturnal for the most part, often going to sleep around 7-9am and waking at 6pm or later. Also this rotates often. The way I train is often labeled as "severe overtraining" by many. My diet is also whatever I can eat to reach my protein baseline. I try to maintain atleast 200 grams of protein a day. Because of the many differences, no one will know you like you know yourself. Theres always more to learn though.

Like in anything, the most successful are not usually the best teachers or the most knowledgable. The best pro golfers listen to guru teaching pros who have fairly limited competitive success on their own. Some of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the world are marginal athletes when compared to those whom they are coaching.

A long time ago I took a PT job in a gym for some summer money where one of the trainers was a bodybuilder (he earned his Pro card about 6 months later). We were talking one day and I asked him about his training and routines. His answer was "I do X sets for arms, Y sets for legs, Z sets for chest...." Right then I knew this guy didn't know anything more than the other noodlearms at the gym. It was drugs, diet, genetics and admittedly hard work but without the drugs he'd be just another guy running around wondering why he couldn't get bigger. His clients made little progress while every one of mine (even the slackers) was making very consistent month to month progress and more importantly felt self empowered in that they knew what needed to be done and were able to make progress under their own power (improves your whole outlook in life when you are out accomplishing a goal and making yourself better).

Most people would look at this guy and look at me and choose him to train them any day. Then again, people who know what to look for would watch us both train - me doing cleans/snatches/pulls, a variety of squats and him doing leg presses, cables, machines, and BS isolation exercises training to failure - they'd know the truth instantly.

EDIT: Anyway, people I listen to (authors/coaches/etc...not an exclusive list - just some names that come to mind):

L. Simmons (WSBarbell)
D. Tate (WSBarbell)
G. Pendlay (IMO - one of the best strength coaches on the planet)
B. Starr (One of the best strength coaches ever. Only the Strong Shall Survive - out of print, always loved reading his reprinted articles which where the only redeeming quality to the trash magazines in which they appeared)
Medvedyev (researcher/author)
Zatsiorsky (researcher/author)
Siff (author)
Laputin (researcher/author)
Roman (researcher/author)
Verkhoshansky (researcher/author)

Some Good Readings:

www.elitefts.com - Go to the books on training. You'll find the following (in no particular order):
A System of Multi Year Training in Weightlifting
Bigger Fast Stronger
Fundmentals of Special Strength Training in Sport
Supertraining (plus lots of others by Siff)
Managing the Training of Weightlifters
Science and Practice of Strength Training

http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/ - Go to Products, Sportivny Press Weightlifting Texts - Russian Weightlifting Library
Here you'll find a number of translations from the above authors that are not available in Enligsh from anywhere else that I've found.

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/index.htm
Nice collection of articles - excellent read.

Some good discussion boards (I'm sure there are others too but these are some of the ones I tend to read on occasion if I'm feeling inclined):

www.fortifiediron.com - some knowledgable people specifically in PLing, OLing, and Track and Field.

www.mesomorphosis.com - their training board has a few people that are really great, particularly Johnsmith182 - be sure to check out the stickies and his tribute sticky in the training forum.

www.goheavy.com - probably the best OLing forum on the internet with more coaching depth than anywhere else. Glenn Pendlay is a mod here.

Anthrax said:

[it's inspired by wnt2bBeast's thread but not aimed at anyone]

I've noticed that most people think that the bigger guys or those who lift the heavier weights detain the ultimate truth whether it be about training, diet, "supplements" or wathever subject more or less related to the gym

If big guys can be very knowledgeable it's neither a prerequisite, nor a guarantee !

There are huge freaks who have no clue about proper nutrition
and skinny guys who can give you the best advice about routines, exercices and juice

and usually the big bastards that show off the most are not the ones you should listen to

Click to expand...

i agree with you a big person does not necessarily have the right training knowledge..he could have reat genetics or he has used a lot of drugs or both..

I dont think nutrition is all that difficult to understand..im sure i can find one or two articles that can sum everything up for bulking or cutting..someone who has starved themselves to get below 7% and can barely lift weights its not a diet guru..

As for me i read alot of the WSB articles and psend time on various PL boards..Whether i can squat 800 or 250 i dont think matters rather i try to help others achieve their goals..

There are some good people on this board some i wish would post more often other less often lol

I agree. Its one thing to achieve goals and another to instruct others. Also, one can become great at learning what works for them specifically, yet have little idea of what works best for others. You can imagine a person could become freakishly large and strong though experimentation without even understanding the mechanics of the human body or how a muscle even grows. A basement lifter with some possible chemical enhancement. Its one thing to achieve a result and another to understand it and teach it.

I dont listen to any one person, i try and take in information from all kinds of people, all shapes and sizes, and through trial and error find whats best for me. The huge freaks dont always know everything, and that skinny dude on the treadmill just might no something, you never know.

these are the credentials from my internet coach. they haven't been updated in a while though:

97 Gold's Gym Bench Classic-Murfreesboro, TN-Open 275
2nd place-320
Bodyweight: 259

98 APF* Southern States push/pull championships-Lewisburg, TN
Bench press-325 Deadlift-500
3rd open 275 2nd open 275
1st novice 275 1st novice 275
Bodyweight: 269

February 99-NASA* TN state championships-Oak Ridge, TN
1st 280 Pure novice
1st 280 Natural- Squat, bench and total, natural state records
1st 280 Pure
Squat: 617.2 Bench: 363.7 Deadlift: 556.5 Total: 1,537.4
Bodyweight: 274

April 99-AAPF* TN state championships-Tullahoma, TN
1st 275 open
1st 275 sub-masters
Squat and bench, sub-master national records
Squat: 635 Bench: 365 Deadlift: 560 Total: 1,560
Bodyweight: 269

August 99-WDFPF* world drug free championships-Omaha, NE
2nd 275 open
Squat: 595 Bench: 391.2 Deadlift: 556.5 Total: 1,548.7
Bodyweight: 270

October 99-NASA TN regional-Nashville, TN
1st 280 pure-all 4 state records
1st 280 natural-squat, deadlift & total state records
1st 280 sub-master I-all 4 state records
Squat: 628.2 Bench: 407.7 Deadlift: 545.5 Total: 1,581.4
Bodyweight: 270

December 99-NASA novice nationals-Nashville, TN
1st 280 Pure-all 4 state records
1st 280 Pure Novice-squat, deadlift & total state records
1st 280 Sub-master-all 4 state records
Squat: 633.7 Bench: 413.2 Deadlift: 584 Total: 1,634.9
Bodyweight: 274

February 2000-NASA powersports nationals-Nashville, TN
2nd 280 sub-master I
1st 280 squat-American record
Curl: 137.7 Squat: 586.4 Bench: 358 Deadlift: 562 Total: 1,063.7
Bodyweight: 272

June 2000-NASA Sub-master/Master Nationals-Nashville, TN
2nd 280 sub-master I
Squat: 650.4 Bench: 418.9 Deadlift: 573.2 Total: 1,642.4
Bodyweight: 278

July 2000-APA* Tennessee Powerlifting Championships-Lebanon, TN
1st 308 Open
Squat and total 308 sub-master drug tested world records
All 4 state open and sub-master records
Squat: 675 Bench: 435 Deadlift: 590 Total: 1,700
Bodyweight: 278

October 2000-NASA Tennessee Regional Powerlifting Championships-Nashville, TN
1st 315 Pure-all 4 state records
1st 315 Sub-master II-all 4 state records
Squat: 677.9 Bench: 424.4 Deadlift: 5723.2 Total: 1,675.5
Bodyweight: 283

February 2001-NASA Power sports Nationals-Nashville, TN
Curl: 159.7 Squat: 589.7 Bench: 391.2 Deadlift: 578.5 Total: 1,129.8
1st Pure-Pure state-records in all lifts and total record
1st Sub-master II-state records in all lifts and total record
Power sports squat American Record
Bodyweight: 296

APRIL 2001-WPA World Championships-Lancaster, PA
1st 308 drug free open
1st 308 drug free sub-masters
Squat: 705 Bench press: 445 Deadlift: 580 Total: 1,730
Squat and Total new 308 drug free world records
Squat and total open 308 state records
Squat, bench and total sub-master state records
Bodyweight: 292

June 2001-NASA Master/Sub-master Nationals-Nashville, TN
1st 315 Sub-master II (35-39)
Squat: 688.9 Bench Press: 451.9 Deadlift: 578.7 Total: 1,719.5
Squat, Bench press, deadlift & total state records
Bodyweight: 291.8

July 2001-WNPF Sub-master Nationals (world qualifier)-Atlanta, GA
1st SHW Sub-master's
Squat: 670 Bench Press: 485 Deadlift: 580 Total: 1,735
Squat, Bench press, Deadlift & Total state records
Bench press Sub-master SHW American record
Bodyweight: 292

August 2001-NASA World Cup-Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
1st 315 Sub-master II
1st 315 Natural
Squat: 688 Bench press: 463 Deadlift: 601 Total: 1,752
Squat, Bench press, Deadlift & Total state records in the Natural & Sub-master II divisions
Bodyweight: 296

October 2001-WNPF World Powerlifting Championships-Greenville, South Carolina
1st SHW Open
1st SHW Sub-masters
Squat: 710.7 Bench Press: 473.7 Deadlift: 589.5 Total: 1,773.9
Squat, Deadlift and Total state records in the open and sub-masters and the bench press was a sub-master world record.
Bodyweight: 296

April 14, 2002-WPA World Powerlifting Championships-Lebanon, New Hampshire
1st 308 Open Tested
1st 308 Sub-masters tested
1st 308 Open Non-tested
Squat: 730 Bench Press: 535 Deadlift: 625 Total: 1,890
All 3 lifts and total in both open and sub-masters new state records, and squat and total are new sub-master world records. Also, the total was a non-tested world record. And the squat and total were also American records in the tested division and total in the non-tested division.
Bodyweight: 303

Records Broken
Powerlifting Power Sports
State: 88 24
National: 2
American: 8 4
World: 16

Best lifts:
Squat: 745-gym, 730 competition
Bench: 535 double ply denim in competition, 500 in single denim in the gym
Deadlift: 645-gym, 625 competition
Curl: 170
Best total: 1,890

I have trained a few people and they did well- i'm not a big guy obviously, but i know a decent amount about gaining strength. its not always the biggest guy who knows the most.

I listen to my body.

Madcow....As I sit here and look over on my bookshelf, you just described almost every author or book I have on strength....with the exclusion of Pendlay of which I will research.

Between "Supertraining", "Science and Practice of Strength Training", "A System of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting and "Managine the Training of Weightlifters".......that is some amazing stuff. I wish people would look at stuff like that instead of Mens Health or the Fitness mags.

A couple of years ago I was on my way to visit Dr Siff in his camp. 2 months before I was to fly to Colorado he passed away. I was sad in many respects. I looked at Mel as a mentor of sorts. I didn't know him except for our phone conversations, but was a really great guy. I miss him and the knowledge that I was to learn from him. His yahoo group is a great source of information. Very smart people on that board.

I agree about Starr. The guys articles in that trash mag was the only reason I bought it. You can still get "Only The Strong Survive" from a couple of different places.

I knew we spoke a similiar language.....LOL Thank you again for taking the time to critique my journal. I really appreciate the help.

Pendlay is a strength coach out of Wichita Falls. Coaches weightlifting, works with the USOC, has coached a variety of other athletes. He is really knowledgable. Sometimes I hit the Olympic Lifting forum at goheavy just to run a search and read his posts (that forum is really stacked with US Weightlifting coaches). Never met him in person nor have I spoken to him on the phone but I really like his methodologies and I find him to be a good solidly grounded down to earth guy from his posts. I don't believe he's competing anymore (was an OL most recently, had done some powerlifting) is just a monstrous guy. I think he was almost 380 - not ultra shredded (which is a bad choice for many competitive athletes) but not fat by any means. Animalmass on Meso (used to post on Fortified Iron and here as well on occasion - we started talking at the now defunked anabolicscience website) is a West Side lifter and is good friends with Glenn. You'd get along well with him, I don't know where he's posting right now but he has a very good foundation of knowledge in training.

The admin at Fortified Iron (user name Fortified Iron - I can't remember his normal name right now - Matt I think?) is a fairly young guy and was a good friend of Siff's. Really looked up to him and took his passing pretty hard. There is a dedicated Supertraining forum there within the Advanced Training Theory Forum. You two might actually already know each other.

I haven't visited Siff's yahoo group. Is it still running? I'll run a search in a bit but if you have a link, even better.

Take care. MC