is TKD the ultimate diet for fat loss and muscle building?

[leancuisine]

a thread on this board regardingliver glycogen depletion has inspired me to request the opinions and/or expertise of those who have tried TKD and/or those who are well-educated enough about the diet to post any comments related to the benefits of such diet over the "other diets" - bodyopus, atkins, etc, etc..

lets hear it brothers and sisters.

 

[Slugfast]

I actually Asked Mr X about the benefits of TKD vs CKD, and he said that typically you will see better results from the CKD. I would assume the TKD is primarily for those that just don't feel like they can maintain their strenght on a CKD

 

[iced earth]

I would think a TKD only because you stay in ketosis much longer if done properly.

 

[Slugfast]

how would you stay in ketosis longer in a TKD, vs a CKD, if you are not carbing up very often? I would assume its only true if you are carbing up 1 day for every 6 days on CKD, correct? I would also assume that while on a TKD, after using carbs prior to working out, it will take a few hours after depleting Glycogen to get back into Ketosis? So overall, wouldn't it take around the same amount of time?

Correct me if I am wrongly assuming anything anywhere, I just don't read into how you would be in Ketosis longer with a TKD where you are getting larger quantities of carbs per day vs a CKD with minimal Carbs. I do understand that the extra carbs on a TKD are not to be calculated into the 30g limit.

Any input from anyone on a TKD who has also done a CKD to compare weight loss (fat loss)?

 

[leancuisine]

SLUGFAST........

i hear what you're saying and it makes sense.

however, i think you're neglecting to stress an important factor.
that is the carb load phase in the CKD which should last about 36 hours. dont forget that during and after that carb load your body is outta ketosis.

so overall, if we're looking at the amount of hours per week that you're in ketosis in CKD and in TKD, i think you will find that you're in ketosis more in TKD.

then again, i may be totally wrong.

i'm just tryina to rationalize an explanation of ICE EARTH'S claim.

 

[MS]

A properly executed TKD will not even kick you out of ketosis provided you've trained hard enough, don't overdo the carbs and use ALA liberally. I think it's a futile discussion to argue which is best. Different folks will do better on one or the other. Ketosis is not even necessary, and I advocate a targetted high protein, low fat, low to moderate carb diet where insulin sensitivity remains exquisitely high and the majority of carbs are eaten just before and after workout. The combination of high protein and post workout carbs is very muscle sparing, and keeping fat low ensures optimal reglycogenation. However I am of the personal opinion/experience that most of this detail doesn't really matter unless you are already insulin resistant. What's more important is your ability to stick to a particular hypocaloric diet long enough to achieve your fat loss goals (and ample protein plus EFAs).

If you held a gun to my head and forced me to choose between CKD and TKD, I would definitely go with TKD because I feel like s**t on CKD.

 

[leancuisine]

MS........

many who have tried CKD have reported a "shitty" feeling.

could you care to provide more details regarding the physical sides that are most presently felt while on CKD and thus the "shitty" feeling.

(I assume that when you say shitty you are referring to a physical reaction and not a mental one)

 

[MS]

"Shitty" is a generally bad feeling that pervades body and mind. I enter ketosis rapidly, often by Monday evening or Tuesday morning if my last carb meal was Sunday evening (with ALA). From ketosis onwards I suffer lethargy, migraine, dehydration, bad temper and a lack of motivation that lasts until I start my carb up. I don't feel as if I 'adapt' to burning ketones like some folks do, although I have never tried going 2-3 weeks in straight ketosis to see if this adaptation might occur. I'm afraid I would have to take several weeks off of work and family to try that experiment, and it's not really worth it to me since other diets work fine. On top of that, I suffer pretty bad rebound carb cravings coming off of a CKD.

I guess the carb-ups prevent me from totally adapting to feeling good in ketosis?

 

[mojokid]

I used to go strictly on the scientific aspect of 'fat loss', and for the most part it is sound, but what I found from experience ( from having a gut pouch ) for such a long time after I had lost a lot of weight, I found that concentrating exercise towards the body part that you want to stimulate fat loss helps greatly ( I'm not talking about spot reducing ) but after I started concentrating my exercise towards my abdominals ( lower ) I noticed a big difference in my gut pouch in only a few days. Some places are easier to lose fat than others and that has to be taken into consideration. I didn't have to do much work on my arms, the fat went quickly and the skin tightened up. Doesn't work as well for all parts of the body though.

but the best diet for fat loss is one in which the mindset is geared first towards fat loss ( only ) and muscle building later.

if i'm not mistaken fat loss requires hypocaloric intake and muscle building requires hypercaloric intake. One can only blunt the other and it might disappoint since you are looking to achieve results with both.