So I'm thinking about starting a CKD, i need some meal ideas.

[cobracock1979]

Hey! No this is good stuff, we are all learning. Ironwing's body is really reacting well to this diet. I'm not even sure she fully left ketosis. I rarely register anymore than trace, she was in full by day 2. Then Sunday night she's in trace just 24 hours after carbing. I think she actually burned fat during the carbup. Something that is absolutely possible based on studies but normally takes a few times of trial and error to determine what foods your body reacts well to.

As far as the fat goes, studies show that if you're going to eat fat, do it in the first 4 hours of the carbup. It appears that during this time fat is still being used as the primary energy source so it's not getting stored. After that, we don't know

It sounds like you did everything right. The day after carbs cardio is meant to deplete your liver glycogen to start getting you back in ketosis as soon as possible. It takes most people 2 or 3 days to get back in.

For protein intake, use either 1 x LBM or .08 x weight. Since you aren't sure of BF% i would use .08 x weight.

Then for a calorie deficit use bodyweight x 12. bodyweight x 10 is a tad extreme and i think would only be used if you stalled at bodyweight x 12. However, it would be better to add more steady state cardio before dropping calories to bodyweight x 10 IMHO.

Great thread,

As to the above - my understanding is avoid fat at all costs during the carb up. Think it may also state thet in one ofnthe documents I emailed over to you.

Also, when I was carbing up my understanding was its best to start maybe the first meal with high Gi stuff, then switch to low. You will definately gain a small amount of weight/ fat during the carb up which is not water, so best to try and minimize it.

Last thing, when I was on a keto, saturated fats got me into Ketosis much faster than EFA's after a carb up.

OB - you taking progress pics regularly so we can have a lok, would be interested to see em

 

[mattie o]

totally exhausted. the lower body work out was gnarly. well, i thought so. heres what i did, tell me what you think...

3x10 squats, 65 lbs (am i a wuss?
3x10 straight legged dead lifts w/ 40 lb. dumbell
3x10 squat jumps w/ 25 lb. bar
3x10 leg extention machine, not sure how much weight, but i pushed it pretty hard
3x10 hamstring curl machine, same as above
3x10 uh...adductor? the one where you push out with your thighs. you know the one. 110 lbs.
3x10 DEAD LIFTS, 65 lbs
3x12 lower back extensions (?)

yep. good times.

half an inch less on my hips today, probably just water weight, but who cares. i feel very tight and good. not going to wiegh until friday morning, hopefully i can make a habit out of that.

im really tooting my own horn here about my little homemade protein bars. sometimes when i drink the whey protein in a shake it makes me naseous, so this is rad. tastes like im eating something naughty.

food today: (so far)

green tea
mattie o protein bar
kfc GRILLED chicken, 1 thigh, 1 drumstick (gross. but i was too exhausted to make myself a lunch, and scott had gotten a bucket for himself and molly for dinner. im sure it has 0 carbs, but i feel icky thinking of things they may or may not inject into their meat. makes me feel like im not eating clean. plus, my keyboard and phone are all freakin' greasy.)
half of an avocado.

529 calories, 11 carbs, 56 protein, 31 fat. 51% fat, 41% protein, and 8% carbs so far. i probably wont eat again until after i walk on the treadmill at 5, i feel really full and i like to empty out my stomach as best i can before cardio...but in all honesty, ill probably have another one of my protein bars

ok, im babbling.

 

[mattie o]

you gain fat during a carb up...? how does that work?

 

[OneBreath]

Great thread,

As to the above - my understanding is avoid fat at all costs during the carb up. Think it may also state thet in one ofnthe documents I emailed over to you.

Also, when I was carbing up my understanding was its best to start maybe the first meal with high Gi stuff, then switch to low. You will definately gain a small amount of weight/ fat during the carb up which is not water, so best to try and minimize it.

Last thing, when I was on a keto, saturated fats got me into Ketosis much faster than EFA's after a carb up.

OB - you taking progress pics regularly so we can have a lok, would be interested to see em

Good points, mattie i meant to mention this about the riceroni and mac&cheese. These things late in the carbup will slab the fat on. Ironwings and i decided we would have 1 cheat meal (pizza) in the first 4 hours of the carbup. Evidence shows that during this time fat is still being used at the energy source, so if you are going to cheat with fat, do it in the first 4 hours. After that fat is a no no.

Cobra: on the high GI we are doing "skipfeeds". Skip Hill is a contest prep coach that uses no fat/high GI carbs for a 24 hour refeed. The faster the digestion the better to shock metabolism. This is the only area we are slightly deviating from the book.

TEAM SKIP

I think you may be right about the saturated fats. I was in ketosis last night and had eaten a lot of red meat Sunday and Monday. I didn't expect to be in until Today or Wed.

I'll try to take some decent pictures this week. I tried just before we started the diet but the camera on my phone is somehow fucking up and they are coming out blurry. But i guess posting what i have is better than nothing. So here's the before.

 

[mattie o]

ok...so do they slab the fat on because of the types of carbs they are, or because they may have fat in them...? i cooked both of them without butter, and used skim mik in the mac n cheese...

i have decided that this weekend im going to do my carb up a little cleaner, oatmeal, more cold cereal, etc. ill probably feel better too. also, which foods are hi GI and which are low GI? im not sure i grasp the concept on all that...should you eat low GI on a carb up, or hi?

ok, and im still confused a bit about gaining fat during a carb up...? or is that if you do it wrong, by eating fat during your carb up (like i did )

now im all mixed up!!!

 

[OneBreath]

ok...so do they slab the fat on because of the types of carbs they are, or because they may have fat in them...? i cooked both of them without butter, and used skim mik in the mac n cheese...

i have decided that this weekend im going to do my carb up a little cleaner, oatmeal, more cold cereal, etc. ill probably feel better too. also, which foods are hi GI and which are low GI? im not sure i grasp the concept on all that...should you eat low GI on a carb up, or hi?

ok, and im still confused a bit about gaining fat during a carb up...? or is that if you do it wrong, by eating fat during your carb up (like i did )

now im all mixed up!!!

Generally speaking, when fatloss is the goal, mixing carbs and fat in the same meal is not optimal. Carbs generate a good insulin spike and that insulin might just shuttle that fat right into stored fat.

Oatmeal and cereal would be much better (be sure to use skim milk)

All carbs are essentially sugar. You can think of Glucose Index as a measurement of how fast a given carb can be converted to sugar. The faster a carb can be converted to sugar, the faster the digestion and the larger the insulin spike (see above).

The higher the GI rating, the faster that carb can be converted to sugar and the higher the insulin spike. The lower the GI rating the slower the conversion to sugar and the smaller the insulin spike.

Under normal diet conditions (not what we are doing) a person would want to avoid high gi carbs if weight loss is their goal.

In our case, we are in a sort of fasted state during the week and we are experiencing no large insulin spikes. Using high GI carbs and no fat during the carbup causes a greater shock to the metabolism and the resulting larger insulin spike shuttles all of that sugar right into our flat and depleted muscles where we want them (for the big workouts at the beginning of the week).

This entire explaination is extremely over simplified but i think the general points are there.

 

[mattie o]

thanks very much for that! so i didnt totally ruin it...?

 

[OneBreath]

thanks very much for that! so i didnt totally ruin it...?

No, definitely not. I didn't know this stuff last year and i would take an entire french baguette and eat it, each bite saturating it in olive oil lol. Yummy, but oh so bad for a carbup. Now that was ruining it!

 

[scott29]

you didnt "ruin" anything.. just learn from what you did last week and tweak it a little this week.. it will get easier the longer you do it.

 

[mattie o]

hey! theres my husband...looks like he used his own acct this time! your cute

i see your point onebreath, thank you! i do have to say, a whole french baguette soaked in olive oil sounds RAD!

i plan to eat an entire box of cookie crisp this weekend. scott29, you in?