Missile defense, death penalty and Business

[chesty]

You know what I find amazing? The fact that the Europeans can interfere with American Company's to the point of preventing sales and acquisitions such as the case with GE and HoneyWell. Where do they get off doing this and why are we letting them do it?

Missile defense:
Has anyone who disagrees with the US thought of why the Russians, and Europeans in general don't want us to defend ourselve's? I keep hearing the arguments of salt treaty and balance of power and shit, but in reality they don't want us to have a missile defense system because then they would not be able to effectively attack us with nuclear ICBM's. Darn, they would be prefer us to remain relatiely defensless against them and their possible plans for future attacks.

It also really bother's me that some Americans buy into this argument. Hell these same Americans don't want us being an offensive nation either. So they fight to have our military stripped of its ability to even provide for a third string defense. These are also the same Americans who want to take away my right to defend myself with whatever weapon I choose, from kitchen knife to a shotgun.

Why should we not have a strong defense? Stronger than anyone else's?

As for the death penalty, well better to punish them quickly and permanently than to let them leech off of society for 50 or 60 years in prison. Hell in some places in the middle east I believe the penalty for drunk driving is death. If you get caught stealing you get your hand cutoff, I don't know about rape, but I am sure it isn't pretty.

Hell our system of justice isn't even that harsh.

So to all the other country's of the world, if you don't like us, waaaaaaa, here is 35 cents, call someone who cares.

 

[chesty]

I guess no one cares any more. How about God is dead or Bush is a loser

 

[conan69]

Bro i hear you, the US is soft

Mexican Jail, damn now that is jail
no color tv, no fitness centers so on

personally i think there should be public execution.
and i think every crime should be done 2 fold to you that you commit against other persons

for example
if you steal 200 bucks you should payback 400

if you rape some girl, you should be raped by 2 huge dudes

anyway guess i am just a little harsh

 

[-SD-]

SEMPER FIDELIS

 

[chesty]

Damn, Conan is that you in that pic? Woa! If it is great job.

I just don't get it!

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Chesty,




Business Law #1: GE (particuarly) and Honeywell are multinational - even global - corporations. If you want to do business in another country, then their laws need to be adhered to. Plain and simple. Other nations have every right to set up a code of laws and to enforce them in accordance with their national interests. We have tariffs and other things on imported goods....same sort of thing.

Missile Shield #1: I'm usually pretty defense-oriented, but your talks of "future ICBM nuclear attacks" is preposterous. Yes, it could happen, but doing that could literally bring on the end of the world. Certainly, a nuclear attack triggers a nuclear response, which creates (at best) an economic climate from which no one could benefit. The missile attacks aren't coming.

Missile Shield #2: The idea is not possible. The Patriot system is a dismal failure. I know battery commanders of Patriot units who say the same thing. There was an anti-missile system called THAAD that was tested by the Pentagon and FAILED. Plans to put in into operation were scrapped. If we can't hit these missiles from the ground, why will we attempt to build it from space?

I know you are an engineer and may argue that technology exists to do it, but until we can deploy a ground based system successfully, let's stay out of space.

Missile Shield #2a: This means big bucks for Defense Contractors, nothing else. As a veteran, why aren't you arguing that a small percentage of the money needed for a missile shiled ($100's of billions) be used for a pay raise for military personnel? That would be money well spent!

Missile Shield #2b: A national defense isn't provided with some space based technical crap. It is built on a military that is proud and well trained. As a veteran, you know that well-trained force is a proud force because they are ready to fight.

You must know that there are units in the Army that don't have funding to train properly. There are many tanks and Bradley vehicles that are not mission capable because of insufficient funding. There are even LIGHT infantry units that cant get to the range foir lack of dollars. Let's address these needs before we do a Star Wars plan.

Justice #1: It is more expensive to put an inmate to death than to let him/her live out 50 years in prison.

Justice #2: Here in America we value human life. That's why the penalty for drunk driving is NOT death. We don't cut off hands here....our culture is not one of barbarism. I'm even re-thinking my pro death penalty stance.


Conan,

I am going to bet you have never served any time in jail. Maybe you spent a night in the holding cell for something or maybe even a weekend, but I doubt you've been to a state prision as an inmate. If you were I doubt you would categorize it as "soft".

 

[gotmilk]

I agree with you Chesty on punishment should be swift and severe. What took so fucking long to off McVeigh? Hell, my Gramps is sitting in a V.A. hospital right now and the State is about to repossess his stuff to pay for his health care. Nice way to treat a vet. He could have used some extra money for his pension..but hey...the government has to feed the murderers, rapists, and child molesters in prison too!

In the meantime..Vladamir RAZZputin is whining about our missile defense system while his butt-nuggett country is selling nuclear goods to Iraq behind our backs.


Look at all the taxpayer money that gets sent to these peon countries...and then they turn around and bitch at us? I have a cure for the Middle Eastern Rock throwers...it's called meet our Cruise missiles you rock chucking dipshits.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

the government has to feed the murderers, rapists, and child molesters in prison too!

Gotmilk:

It is MORE expensive to execute a criminal than it is to houe him or her for 50 years. MORE expensive. The way our country treats its Vets is shameful. I'm a veteran myself. But that is another issue.

 

[chesty]

Matt, yes I agree with you that GE and HoneyWell sell goods world wide, but the fact is the are American countries and Most of what they sell we buy. Whether or not they sell world wide is of no concern, if the purchaser doesn't like the seller don't buy.

I also agree that the idea of a nuclear chance is not a favorite among us, but to believe that it is not possible or just a remote possibility is fool hardy. Yes, a good defense involves all key elements, none of which is more important than the troops. While in the Marines we could not even afford to go to the field for a week, just to go hiking and shoot blanks. Yes we should fix that problem as well.


The technology is there, whether or not we utilize it is another story. The company's like Raytheon are more worried about winning a contract and cutting costs than building a viable system. Remember our weapons come from the lowest bidder.

The Patriot system is a dismal failure, from the Marines I talked to that went over to DS, they said a lot more scuds got through than we were led to believe. The hit ratio was quite poor.

My point on the missile defense system is not whether it works or not or whether a nuclear attack will occur, but the idea that other nations are trying to tell us how to take care of business at home. It is none of their business period.

Maybe if we cut off a hand or two and whacked a drunk or two people might start to wake up around here.

As for what costs more, of course it will cost more to house a killer for 15-25 years plus appeals before he is executed. If you gave them all of their due appeals and 6 months to one year max to prove they should not be executed or that they are innocent, then the cost of housing vs executing would be way different. Something like housing for a year plus food and court costs and salaries for that one year and then the cost of the actual execution, chemicals, 9.95, bullets and rifles 3.00 (the rifles are already owned by the state), 2.00 for a rope and 1.00 for 2000 amps for 30 seconds.

So for 1 year I say top dollar paid would be 100k. For 40 years in prison at say an average of 30k, 1.2 million minimum not counting inflation.

The main point of this topic is that the rest of the world has no right to medle in our affairs, just as we have no right to medle in theirs.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Chesty,

I agree that America should bend less to international pressures. But neither you nor I know what words are spoken by diplomats and politicians. There are things we don;t know, so a lot of our comments are purely theoretical.

Nuclear attack is beyond remote. I know that citizen apathy is how civilizations are led to ruin - and I am not being apathetic. Nuclear attack is BEYOND remote. No one wins in a nuclear conflict. Everyone sustains the kind of losses that destroy civilization.

I know - as does any vet - about lowest bidder weapons. Your contention that the technology being available but not used is another problem. The Patriot sucks. THAAD is a failure.

Now we want to commit hundreds of billions to a project that "might work". The Defense Budget could be used on real problems - no money for training, low pay, lack of decent housing - a lot of things REALLY need to be addressed before we send up this plan.


We can't cut off hands and whack drunks. If you like that type of justice please go to Iran or any number of African dictatorships. They dispense it liberally there. I know you are patriotic so stop smearing our country that way.

The death penalty issue: Appeals beyond one year have saved lives brother. Executing innocent people even once is tyranny.

Therefore I would agree to this: In cases of ABSOLUTE certainty - DNA evidence, video footage, - execute quickly. No real need for appeals in those situations. Otherwise, the process in place must remain.