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Lets debate fat people

Lao Tzu

New member
Someone argue with me, i want to hear some good counterarguments. Show me the way.

Alot of the arguments against fat people here involve things like laziness and increased medical costs. However these are not the case.

True fat people use up more healthcare costs, but they die earlier saving money on medicaid and social security. Who will eat up more medicaid and social security money, an obese person who dies at 68 or a thin, fit person who dies at 84? The answer seems obvious but i can't dig up stats to prove it right now. Besides, extending the lifespan of humans is the most expensive medical procedure we are working on right now. The longer people live the more money they will suck up. Why not protest outside a scientific lab working on a treatment for cardiovascular disease instead of yelling at fat people to lose weight? the end result is all the same, more money is spent because people live longer lives.

As far as laziness, the human body, as far as i know, isn't designed to lose weight and keep it off. Fat is emergency fuel and you will have to trick and manipulate your body until you die in order to maintain a less than 'normal' bodyweight (depending on how your biochemistry defines normal bodyweight & bodyfat percentage). Until people gain the self discipline and drive and/or pharmacology and surgery advance enough to make maintenance doable for most of the population the current methods will only offer temporary solutions and the majority of the population will still be obese. Obesity is becoming a major problem, there are now more overweight people on earth than starving people and it will only continute to get worse. And diet and exercise will help, but they are not cures.

Speaking of 'diet and exercise', these are not 'cures' for obesity, merely lifestyle changes that decrease the odds of contracting this disease (i dont like using the word disease to describe obesity, but it fits this metaphor). Take SARS for instance. When a quarantine was established nobody said 'ok, we cured SARS, lets go home'. All they did was enforce an unnatural lifestyle change that lessened the degree and intensity of that disease. They are sitll working on true cures for it but right now all we have are lifestyle changes. That is how it is with many diseases and illnesses, before a real cure can be found lifestyle changes are treated as the best way to slow the progression of the disease. Sanitation, Isolation and quarantines are good ways to slow the spread of the Black Plague, but only anti-biotics can cure it. Same with obesity. Diet and exercise will help alot of people become less fat, but it will not cure obesity, Just cut its rates and that is assuming people will even do it in the first place, Which they wont. Obesity will not truly be 'cured' until people can eat all they want, never exercise and not get fat. That won't happen until drugs that safely stop lipogenesis are created. Unlike AIDS, where all you have to do is wear a condom, the lifestyle changes for obesity involve going against millions of years of evolution. People aren't designed to get off on burning more calories than they use. We'd all be dead if we did that. Then again we aren't designed to get off on injecting ourselves with needles (which in the wild would probably cause sepsis), but we do that all the time. So maybe that point is moot.

And who said laziness is a bad thing? Laziness and a desire to get something for nothing is what fuels innovation and technology. If people weren't to lazy to walk we wouldn't have bikes. if people weren't too lazy to bike we wouldn't have cars. if people weren't too lazy to drive we wouldn't have planes.

Also there is alot of ragging on fat people for wanting a 'magic pill'. EF is the home of magic pills which help you lose weight (at least more weight than you'd lose with diet & exercise alone). T3, DNP, an endless assortment of alpha and beta agonists and antagonists, herbs, Type II diabetes drugs, etc. If a working weight loss drug is ever discovered people on EF will be using it before the ink dries on the scientific report. When the FDA is doing stage II trials on the drug people on EF will be buying it from industrial chemistry suppliers in Tiawan and capping it in their basements. People here take the same shortcuts everyone else does.
 
Cancer is a disease. Autism is a disease.

Obesity is not a disease. It's a by-product of lifestyle choices. Granted some people are genetically prone to have a higher bf% than others, but no one is genetically coded to be 30% bf or greater. Darwin would turn over in his grave.
 
BrandonXJ said:
Cancer is a disease. Autism is a disease.

Obesity is not a disease. It's a by-product of lifestyle choices. Granted some people are genetically prone to have a higher bf% than others, but no one is genetically coded to be 30% bf or greater. Darwin would turn over in his grave.

No, obesity is just as much a mixture of genetics & lifestyle as anything else. Cancer is due to poor lifestyle choices too. Most diseases are partly due to decisions or indecisions made by the sufferer.

I don't know if i agree that 30% is the cut off point. I have seen fat parents who had fat kids, all of whom had bf% in the 50-60% range.

Even though obesity is 100% treatable in 98% of people most of them will not do what it takes to lose weight and keep it off. People can get mad about taht all they want, that is the case. Thats like getting mad that people won't stop fighting war or that people won't stop believing in god. Reality goes its own route.
 
Obesity alone is not a problem for anyone but the obese person. Until all of these ideas that people should bear the costs of how others treat their body disappear, ludicrous arguments on both sides will reign.

The fact that you debate on those terms demonstrates

1. You are a socialist

That's all you've established. You have several thousand posts here, we knew all that though.


As to your other "point":

Laziness is not the reason for improved technology; desire to increase wealth and standard of living is.

The desire of EF-ers to be thin / fit at all chemical costs is a red herring.


In conclusion:

You or someone else want to be fat? Be fat. Just don't come looking to me to pay your bills when you get sick at a young age.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Obesity alone is not a problem for anyone but the obese person. Until all of these ideas that people should bear the costs of how others treat their body disappear, ludicrous arguments on both sides will reign.

The fact that you debate on those terms demonstrates

1. You are a socialist

That's all you've established. You have several thousand posts here, we knew all that though.

As to your other "point":

Laziness is not the reason for improved technology; desire to increase wealth and standard of living is.

The desire of EF-ers to be thin / fit at all chemical costs is a red herring.

In conclusion:

You or someone else want to be fat? Be fat. Just don't come looking to me to pay your bills when you get sick at a young age.

Yeah im a socialist. So is pretty much everyone in the developed world to one degree or another. Sucks to be rich huh? You're paying people's bills no matter what. Thin, healthy people have bills just as high as fat unhealthy people. It just takes longer to collect.

Laziness is the same thing as a higher standard of living. People want more for less, this is what laziness is.
 
nordstrom said:
Yeah im a socialist. So is pretty much everyone in the developed world to one degree or another. Sucks to be rich huh? You're paying people's bills no matter what. Thin, healthy people have bills just as high as fat unhealthy people. It just takes longer to collect.

Laziness is the same thing as a higher standard of living. People want more for less, this is what laziness is.

Laziness is not wanting more for less. Laziness is being unwilling to make an effort to do something. The wanting vs. doing discrepancy is . perhaps the heart of why your statement is nonsense.

The idea of paying other people's bills is indeed socialism and yep, people embrace it. Having said that I am equally opposed to paying fo a skinny guy's medical problems.
 
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