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7-oxo competes... its metabolites compete.. and they are all non hormonal..
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P Seven
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Michael Corleone 21
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macrophage69alpha said:
Ive tried a low dose of liquidex in the past by itself with no AS. It just made me very moody, gave me awful anxieties, and for some reason made me start retaining a bunch of water....what do you think might have caused this and yes I alwyas keep my sodium levels in check
Michael Corleone 21
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Fonz said:
LOL@non-hormonal
They're all derrivatives of............
Fonz
So do you htink it would be a bad idea for me to try P7 as I have had troubles in the past with my high conversion rate of Test to estrogen??What do you honestly recommend?
macrophage69alpha
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Michael Corleone 21 said:
its is not a bad idea..
it will reduce aromatic estro levels.. on this the research is pretty clear.. via competition
I don't suppose you could point me to this clear research on 7-oxo DHEA's anti-aromatase abilities?????
An update from MS: Please be careful with this stuff. I thought it would be 'harmless' to try it (mainly because I didn't really believe it would do anything). Now, I have said it before, and I'll say it again, but I do not represent the 'normal' stressed-out and anxious westerner by any stretch of the imagination, which is why I didn't expect much of an effect. What has happened to me was COMPLETELY unexpected and paradoxical at first, but I now know better.....
I have been having some major anxiety problems sincing I started using P7. Honest! And they went away when I stopped the P7, and have come back again now that I've started it. It was only AFTER I had these anxiety problems that I read a bit deeper on the neuroactive effects of pregnenolone and, in mice at least, TOO MUCH PREGNENOLONE MAKES THEM ANXIOUS, whereas smaller amounts that correct a deficiency (in humans AND mice), actually leads to a calming effect. Another side effect that is quite dramatic is my complete loss of any desire to drink alcohol. I have used daily alcohol (2-3 drinks) for decades as part of my stress management, and now I have an aversion for the stuff (which doesn't help with my new-found anxiety). I now find out that this is also normal (in mice at least) and that high levels of pregnenolone seems to diminish or remove the relaxing effects of alcohol.
I convinced my SO to try the women's version, and she has already stopped because of breast tenderness and fluid retention. I also have had pretty noticeable increases in fluid retention which is great for getting through the night without peeing, but otherwise not very pleasant.
The good news is that high doses of this stuff may be useful in treating alcoholism and related drug problems? Not sure about this one, but if there are any alcoholics out there (or women struggling with alcohol probs), it might be worth giving this stuff a try and see how you feel.
No changes in libido
But that seems reasonable considering my increased feelings of stress. I think that bottle should carry a warning to avoid this stuff if you're not stressed out! I might be interested in trying a 7-oxo version only though..........
An update from MS: Please be careful with this stuff. I thought it would be 'harmless' to try it (mainly because I didn't really believe it would do anything). Now, I have said it before, and I'll say it again, but I do not represent the 'normal' stressed-out and anxious westerner by any stretch of the imagination, which is why I didn't expect much of an effect. What has happened to me was COMPLETELY unexpected and paradoxical at first, but I now know better.....
I have been having some major anxiety problems sincing I started using P7. Honest! And they went away when I stopped the P7, and have come back again now that I've started it. It was only AFTER I had these anxiety problems that I read a bit deeper on the neuroactive effects of pregnenolone and, in mice at least, TOO MUCH PREGNENOLONE MAKES THEM ANXIOUS, whereas smaller amounts that correct a deficiency (in humans AND mice), actually leads to a calming effect. Another side effect that is quite dramatic is my complete loss of any desire to drink alcohol. I have used daily alcohol (2-3 drinks) for decades as part of my stress management, and now I have an aversion for the stuff (which doesn't help with my new-found anxiety). I now find out that this is also normal (in mice at least) and that high levels of pregnenolone seems to diminish or remove the relaxing effects of alcohol.
I convinced my SO to try the women's version, and she has already stopped because of breast tenderness and fluid retention. I also have had pretty noticeable increases in fluid retention which is great for getting through the night without peeing, but otherwise not very pleasant.
The good news is that high doses of this stuff may be useful in treating alcoholism and related drug problems? Not sure about this one, but if there are any alcoholics out there (or women struggling with alcohol probs), it might be worth giving this stuff a try and see how you feel.
No changes in libido
But that seems reasonable considering my increased feelings of stress. I think that bottle should carry a warning to avoid this stuff if you're not stressed out! I might be interested in trying a 7-oxo version only though..........macrophage69alpha
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MS,
not anti aromatase.. it is a competitive inhibitor of the substrate... and likely for the enzyme itself.
as far as your particular response.. am venturing to guess that is more likely due to raised T3 levels. though that being said as with anything paradoxical reactions to many supplements not experienced by others are often found... perhaps your neurochemistry is different..
for instance have encountered 2 people in which GHB does not make them sleepy, even at higher doses.
have encountered, people where bromo basically "knocks" them out.
it may be your long use of median alcohol intake that is having some effect (cant say for sure)... though such use definitely effects enzyme and substrate levels..
perhaps your lack of stress is part of the problem.. ie you dont need it.. most people that tried it.. do.. ie have stress, anxiety or sleeping problems.
not anti aromatase.. it is a competitive inhibitor of the substrate... and likely for the enzyme itself.
as far as your particular response.. am venturing to guess that is more likely due to raised T3 levels. though that being said as with anything paradoxical reactions to many supplements not experienced by others are often found... perhaps your neurochemistry is different..
for instance have encountered 2 people in which GHB does not make them sleepy, even at higher doses.
have encountered, people where bromo basically "knocks" them out.
it may be your long use of median alcohol intake that is having some effect (cant say for sure)... though such use definitely effects enzyme and substrate levels..
perhaps your lack of stress is part of the problem.. ie you dont need it.. most people that tried it.. do.. ie have stress, anxiety or sleeping problems.
macrophage69alpha
New member
Millie said:i received mine yesterday
storing it at room temperature is fine, right? and since i got the orange version does this mean that i should apply it only once a day?
individual dosing requirement vary, though with orange once a day should maintain even levels.. some people like smaller more frequent doses.. its a matter of preference..
room temp or warmer is fine.. it is not particularly heat sensitive
"as far as your particular response.. am venturing to guess that is more likely due to raised T3 levels. though that being
said as with anything paradoxical reactions to many supplements not experienced by others are often found... perhaps
your neurochemistry is different.. ".................................I will bet money it's not a T3 effect, however there is no way to tell for sure.
"for instance have encountered 2 people in which GHB does not make them sleepy, even at higher doses". ............................This also happens to me, although GHB will make me stagger and feel dizzy and nausious, it does not put me to sleep.
"it may be your long use of median alcohol intake that is having some effect (cant say for sure)... though such use
definitely effects enzyme and substrate levels".. ...................................It also affects GABA and benzodiazepine receptors, and my bet is that this is why I'm having a paradoxical reaction. Same thing happens in mice............
"perhaps your lack of stress is part of the problem.. ie you dont need it.. most people that tried it.. do.. ie have stress,
anxiety or sleeping problems."..........................................or all of the above combined.
Never-the- less, I am ordering some more of this stuff for several reasons.
1) My SO noticed after she stopped that her joints got worse. It wasn't until she pointed this out that I realized how much my joints had improved while taking this supp. She is now taking half of the dose she was, and hoping this will help with joints without too much breast pain.
2) Now that I've settled in to going without "happy hour", I AM feeling better and sleeping better. Can't say for sure how much this has to do with not drinking compared to how much of it is directly P7, but I want to continue the experiment, and I also highly encourage anyone else who drinks regularly to try it and see how it makes them feel towards alcohol. This could be a VERY exciting supp for a LOT odf people for different reasons.
Along the lines of ordering more, I'm still a little confused over the difference between Orange and Peppermint?? How much lower dosed is Orange? How is it 'time-released' compared to Peppermint? The AF website doesn't mention any progesterone in the Orange formulation, but you mentioned it has some...how much??
And I second Millie's sentiments about the service-it took less than a week for it to get to me and I'm half way around the world!
said as with anything paradoxical reactions to many supplements not experienced by others are often found... perhaps
your neurochemistry is different.. ".................................I will bet money it's not a T3 effect, however there is no way to tell for sure.
"for instance have encountered 2 people in which GHB does not make them sleepy, even at higher doses". ............................This also happens to me, although GHB will make me stagger and feel dizzy and nausious, it does not put me to sleep.
"it may be your long use of median alcohol intake that is having some effect (cant say for sure)... though such use
definitely effects enzyme and substrate levels".. ...................................It also affects GABA and benzodiazepine receptors, and my bet is that this is why I'm having a paradoxical reaction. Same thing happens in mice............
"perhaps your lack of stress is part of the problem.. ie you dont need it.. most people that tried it.. do.. ie have stress,
anxiety or sleeping problems."..........................................or all of the above combined.
Never-the- less, I am ordering some more of this stuff for several reasons.
1) My SO noticed after she stopped that her joints got worse. It wasn't until she pointed this out that I realized how much my joints had improved while taking this supp. She is now taking half of the dose she was, and hoping this will help with joints without too much breast pain.
2) Now that I've settled in to going without "happy hour", I AM feeling better and sleeping better. Can't say for sure how much this has to do with not drinking compared to how much of it is directly P7, but I want to continue the experiment, and I also highly encourage anyone else who drinks regularly to try it and see how it makes them feel towards alcohol. This could be a VERY exciting supp for a LOT odf people for different reasons.
Along the lines of ordering more, I'm still a little confused over the difference between Orange and Peppermint?? How much lower dosed is Orange? How is it 'time-released' compared to Peppermint? The AF website doesn't mention any progesterone in the Orange formulation, but you mentioned it has some...how much??
And I second Millie's sentiments about the service-it took less than a week for it to get to me and I'm half way around the world!
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