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Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be as detailed as possible for others that may be considering the OTC route for PCT.
DISCLAIMER: Before anyone flames me for doing gear WAAAAAAAAAAAY too early, I ALREADY KNOW! I realized that after I started really researching this site. I started doing it on bad advice. I'm now staying natty and working on all of my core power exercises and not looking to do any more gear any time soon.
I mentioned a few times that I was going to use sustain alpha, post cycle, and unleashed only for my pct and that I would post my results when I was finished. I promised blood test results but I just don't have the money to get my test levels checked right now (and don't have any baseline numbers anyway) so I am going by feeling.
To understand the way I was suppressed you need the whole story. I got into gear because of bad advice from a so called "friend". In the past I had only worked out for about 6 months solid. I had stopped for about a year and lost whatever gains I had made. I wanted to get back into the gym and he convinced me that "light supplementation" -- his words -- with gear would get me amazing results. He definitely overstated the impact that it would have and I probably could have gained much more than I did if he had taught me good diet and exercise routines instead of giving me gear.
I started at 5'8" 155lbs, basically no muscle. I was 21 then which was about 8 months ago, now I am 22, 158-160 and much less fat then when I started. My goal now for the short term is to keep my weight the same while dropping my bf down to around 12%.
He somehow convinced me to do 8 weeks of 50mg var and 50mg winnie a day (because I didn't want needles). He never mentioned PCT or anything like that.
Next he finally convinced me to use needles. He sold me a bunch of deca, masteron enanthate, and a test p/tren ace/masteron p blend. He tried to get me on the blend first but the test p hurt and I didn't want to do it. So he got be on 8 weeks of deca (I'm guessing it was only 100mg a week because the vial was unlabeled so I don't know exact dosage and I was only shooting 1/2cc a week) with 200mg masteron every 5 days (I know that one because it was a labeled vial). Keep in mind this was only about 4 weeks after the first cycle.
When I finished that one, 2 weeks later I got on the blend. I basically had made no noticeable gains off of the deca/masteron because my diet wasn't right and well it just was a retarted cycle. Now that I was used to needles, I was ok with pinning EOD so I got on half dose of the blend. I don't know the exact dosage because it was unlabeled. He told me it was "double dosed" at his request from his supplier. Now I have no idea what the original dose would be or exactly how much you can even fit in a cc.
At this point I was 153lbs, but had less fat and more muscle than when I started. I ran this (1/2 cc EOD) for 8 weeks. About 1 week into it he moved away. Thank god this happened because that was when I started really reading this site because I couldn't ask him for advice anymore. I got my diet in check eating 3500+ clean cals a day and really got my exercise routines in check as well. I learned about hcg, so I ran 250iu twice a week for weeks 4-8. Also about halfway through I did 1/2cc of deca for 2 weeks because I was having joint problems.
At the end of that I was 165lbs with much more muscle definition. I started my PCT of sustain alpha 5 pumps ED, Unleashed 3 caps morning 3 caps night for the first week and then just 3 caps in the morning after that, and Post Cycle 3 caps morning 3 caps night. I started this a day or 2 after my last inject. I ran it until I went to the Winter Music Conference in South Beach last week on Tues which was right when my bottle of sustain ran out (about 3 and a half weeks). Also, near the end I was forgetting to take the unleashed and post cycle sometimes. I was very strict at the beginning. I did use sustain every day though.
As soon as I started PCT I switched to a carb cycling diet for a week which dropped off about 5 lbs of water weight, then I switched to a more sustainable diet of about 3000 clean cals a day with about 320g protein, and 250g carbs everyday, no cycling. My lifts continued to go up for a couple weeks (possibly from the gear still being in my blood somewhat). End result: 158-160lbs, much more muscular, about the same fat. So total gain of maybe 5 or 6 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. Could I have done it without gear? Yes! Do I wish I hadn't done the gear in the first place and just learned the diet and training knowledge I have now? Hell yes!
CONCLUSION:
My libido was starting to suffer by the end of the test/tren/mast cycle. Probably because I through in the deca for my joints. Also my mood was getting really bad because of sleep problems from the tren. Within a day of the Sustain my mood was 100% better even though I was still tired as hell. This was not placebo. It was that big of a difference. And if it was placebo, it was one hell of a placebo affect!
My balls were about half size on the last cycle. By about 1 week they visibly looked back to normal. Within a week my libido was improving. Not great -- it was hard to bust, took forever -- but getting better. Then it took a dip for about a week or 2. Right now I can say it is coming back strong.
I don't know if it was looking at all of the stupidly hot women in South Beach that I couldn't have that brought it back or hanging out with 2 stupid hot girls for the week that I couldn't bang (they were taken) or what. But, all I can say is I actually feel like a man again. The idea of a naked woman was barely doing anything for me before. Now I feel like I'm back to myself. Not 100% there, but 95%. I would say not bad for 3 and a half weeks of otc sups for pct after being low to then highly suppressed for what was basically 8 months straight. Luckily I was doing fairly low dosages of everything so I think that helped. Either way I never had to touch the Nolvadex I had laying around.
Also, even though I barely got in cals during the last week and didn't get to work out because I was partying, I have kept all of my mass. I was sick with a bad cold/sore throat this week so I didn't get to work out either but I've been getting my cals in. I am the same musculature/weight as I was during pct so I would say the only thing I lost from the last cycle was water weight. I can't wait to hit the gym hard again next week. I'll keep this thread updated with my progress over the next month or two. I hope to continue to lose fat slowly and build up my strength. Unless my weight dips all of a sudden or I loose a bunch of muscle I would call this PCT successful in retaining mass.
Would I recommend to others? Definitely.
I would say try it after a shorter cycle (no more than 8 weeks) and definitely run hcg during cycle. I think for most people nothing else but sustain would be necessary. I can't say for certain what product did what. I can say I didn't like taking all of the pills so for a first time I would say just run sustain for 1 month and see how that works for you. If you aren't feeling back to normal then maybe add post cycle and unleashed and run sustain for another month. Of course these sups may not work for everyone (especially on a heavy cycle) so if you try it and you aren't back to normal after 8 weeks you can always run a "normal" pct cycle then.
DISCLAIMER: Before anyone flames me for doing gear WAAAAAAAAAAAY too early, I ALREADY KNOW! I realized that after I started really researching this site. I started doing it on bad advice. I'm now staying natty and working on all of my core power exercises and not looking to do any more gear any time soon.
I mentioned a few times that I was going to use sustain alpha, post cycle, and unleashed only for my pct and that I would post my results when I was finished. I promised blood test results but I just don't have the money to get my test levels checked right now (and don't have any baseline numbers anyway) so I am going by feeling.
To understand the way I was suppressed you need the whole story. I got into gear because of bad advice from a so called "friend". In the past I had only worked out for about 6 months solid. I had stopped for about a year and lost whatever gains I had made. I wanted to get back into the gym and he convinced me that "light supplementation" -- his words -- with gear would get me amazing results. He definitely overstated the impact that it would have and I probably could have gained much more than I did if he had taught me good diet and exercise routines instead of giving me gear.
I started at 5'8" 155lbs, basically no muscle. I was 21 then which was about 8 months ago, now I am 22, 158-160 and much less fat then when I started. My goal now for the short term is to keep my weight the same while dropping my bf down to around 12%.
He somehow convinced me to do 8 weeks of 50mg var and 50mg winnie a day (because I didn't want needles). He never mentioned PCT or anything like that.
Next he finally convinced me to use needles. He sold me a bunch of deca, masteron enanthate, and a test p/tren ace/masteron p blend. He tried to get me on the blend first but the test p hurt and I didn't want to do it. So he got be on 8 weeks of deca (I'm guessing it was only 100mg a week because the vial was unlabeled so I don't know exact dosage and I was only shooting 1/2cc a week) with 200mg masteron every 5 days (I know that one because it was a labeled vial). Keep in mind this was only about 4 weeks after the first cycle.
When I finished that one, 2 weeks later I got on the blend. I basically had made no noticeable gains off of the deca/masteron because my diet wasn't right and well it just was a retarted cycle. Now that I was used to needles, I was ok with pinning EOD so I got on half dose of the blend. I don't know the exact dosage because it was unlabeled. He told me it was "double dosed" at his request from his supplier. Now I have no idea what the original dose would be or exactly how much you can even fit in a cc.
At this point I was 153lbs, but had less fat and more muscle than when I started. I ran this (1/2 cc EOD) for 8 weeks. About 1 week into it he moved away. Thank god this happened because that was when I started really reading this site because I couldn't ask him for advice anymore. I got my diet in check eating 3500+ clean cals a day and really got my exercise routines in check as well. I learned about hcg, so I ran 250iu twice a week for weeks 4-8. Also about halfway through I did 1/2cc of deca for 2 weeks because I was having joint problems.
At the end of that I was 165lbs with much more muscle definition. I started my PCT of sustain alpha 5 pumps ED, Unleashed 3 caps morning 3 caps night for the first week and then just 3 caps in the morning after that, and Post Cycle 3 caps morning 3 caps night. I started this a day or 2 after my last inject. I ran it until I went to the Winter Music Conference in South Beach last week on Tues which was right when my bottle of sustain ran out (about 3 and a half weeks). Also, near the end I was forgetting to take the unleashed and post cycle sometimes. I was very strict at the beginning. I did use sustain every day though.
As soon as I started PCT I switched to a carb cycling diet for a week which dropped off about 5 lbs of water weight, then I switched to a more sustainable diet of about 3000 clean cals a day with about 320g protein, and 250g carbs everyday, no cycling. My lifts continued to go up for a couple weeks (possibly from the gear still being in my blood somewhat). End result: 158-160lbs, much more muscular, about the same fat. So total gain of maybe 5 or 6 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. Could I have done it without gear? Yes! Do I wish I hadn't done the gear in the first place and just learned the diet and training knowledge I have now? Hell yes!
CONCLUSION:
My libido was starting to suffer by the end of the test/tren/mast cycle. Probably because I through in the deca for my joints. Also my mood was getting really bad because of sleep problems from the tren. Within a day of the Sustain my mood was 100% better even though I was still tired as hell. This was not placebo. It was that big of a difference. And if it was placebo, it was one hell of a placebo affect!
My balls were about half size on the last cycle. By about 1 week they visibly looked back to normal. Within a week my libido was improving. Not great -- it was hard to bust, took forever -- but getting better. Then it took a dip for about a week or 2. Right now I can say it is coming back strong.
I don't know if it was looking at all of the stupidly hot women in South Beach that I couldn't have that brought it back or hanging out with 2 stupid hot girls for the week that I couldn't bang (they were taken) or what. But, all I can say is I actually feel like a man again. The idea of a naked woman was barely doing anything for me before. Now I feel like I'm back to myself. Not 100% there, but 95%. I would say not bad for 3 and a half weeks of otc sups for pct after being low to then highly suppressed for what was basically 8 months straight. Luckily I was doing fairly low dosages of everything so I think that helped. Either way I never had to touch the Nolvadex I had laying around.
Also, even though I barely got in cals during the last week and didn't get to work out because I was partying, I have kept all of my mass. I was sick with a bad cold/sore throat this week so I didn't get to work out either but I've been getting my cals in. I am the same musculature/weight as I was during pct so I would say the only thing I lost from the last cycle was water weight. I can't wait to hit the gym hard again next week. I'll keep this thread updated with my progress over the next month or two. I hope to continue to lose fat slowly and build up my strength. Unless my weight dips all of a sudden or I loose a bunch of muscle I would call this PCT successful in retaining mass.
Would I recommend to others? Definitely.
I would say try it after a shorter cycle (no more than 8 weeks) and definitely run hcg during cycle. I think for most people nothing else but sustain would be necessary. I can't say for certain what product did what. I can say I didn't like taking all of the pills so for a first time I would say just run sustain for 1 month and see how that works for you. If you aren't feeling back to normal then maybe add post cycle and unleashed and run sustain for another month. Of course these sups may not work for everyone (especially on a heavy cycle) so if you try it and you aren't back to normal after 8 weeks you can always run a "normal" pct cycle then.
