My Andro cycle

[fhg43]

I need some help. I had gone to great lengths to plan out an andro cycle and was doing some research last night and am having second thoughts. I thought I had done plenty of research, but...

Here is what my cycle looks like

Week 1: 5AD 250mg 1 tab/ED
Week 2: 5AD 250mg 1 tab/ED 4AD 250mg 1 tab/ED
Week 3: 5AD 500mg 2 tab/ED 4AD 250mg 1 tab/ED
Week 4: 5AD 500mg 2 tab/ED 4AD 500mg 2 tab/ED
Week 5: 5AD 500mg 2 tab/ED 4AD 500mg 2 tab/ED
Week 6: 5AD 500mg 2 tab/ED 4AD 500mg 2 tab/ED AndroSpray 320mg/ED
Week 7: 5AD 750mg 3 tab/ED 4AD 250mg 1 tab/ED AndroSpray 320mg/ED
Week 8: 5AD 750mg 3 tab/ED AndroSpray 320mg/ED
Week 9: 5AD 500mg 2 tab/ED AndroSpray 320mg/ED
Week 8: 5AD 250mg 1 tab/ED AndroSpray 320mg/ED

I thought I did enough research. It sounded like 5AD would be fine, but now from what I've recently learned, I don't think it will work as well. I like 4AD and I think I might shift it around to be my primary supplement. Any cycle help would be appreciated.

-I am not looking for size-I want strength and faster recovery from hard workouts

-I can't use Norandros; I'll test positive in my sport federation drug controls

-my first cycle ever

-Was thinking about 1AD

FHG

 

[fhg43]

BUMP-

come on boys need some advice either way. Any help appreciated.

FHG

 

[JayBro]

I just did a NorDiol & 1,4andro stack and I think if I ever take prohormones again I will take 4AD or 1AD.

Before I chose the Nor's I was going to go with 4AD by itself. I dont like what I have read about 5AD (bitch tits)
My cycle was 8 weeks and never did my nipples itch at a combo of 900mg.

Here is some more info for you to digest, but I think 4AD is better than 5AD.

5-Diol or 5AD (5-androsten-3,17-diol)

Target Hormone: Testosterone
Molecular name of target hormone: 4-androstene-3-one,17ß-ol
Target conversion: low (0.19 %)
Conversion enzyme: 3-ß-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD)
DHT conversion: None
Estrogenic effects: High, no aromatisation from compound, only from target hormone, but acts as an estrogen agonist

5-diol is a compound that turns to testosterone, but as explained before needs an enzyme called 5,4-isomerase to switch its double bond to make it convert. So in a way, 5-diol needs to convert to 4-diol before it becomes testosterone, making it a less effective conversion. Its also less aggressive and the chance of estrogen-related side effects are considerable, not because of aromatisation prior to conversion but because it stimulates estrogens already present.

5-diol is not on my list of top recommended products, its obviously the worst of the diol versions, but it has its uses. As I hinted at it's a perfect match for a diol/diol stack, so with 4-diol or Nor-diol it would make a decent match and I'd even recommend it with the Nor-diol (Not so much with 4-diol, since just increasing 4-diol would have a similar effect), but other than that, I'd opt for the 4-diol for sure. 5-diol does however have the added benefit of being able to upgrade the conversion enzyme 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3 HSD) and can improve the rate of conversion of other diol prohormones. Keep in mind that if you use it would have to be in a bulking stack and as a bulking agent because of its capacity as an estrogen agonist (Its actually used to agonize estrogens in hormonal therapy) which will increase the amount of water you hold and smooth you out. Itchy nipples are also a common side-effect, but will go away after use is discontinued.

4-diol or 4AD (4-androsten-3,17-diol)

Target Hormone: Testosterone
Molecular name of target hormone: 4-androstene-3-one,17ß-ol
Target conversion: High (15.76 %)
Conversion enzyme: 3-ß-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD)
DHT conversion: low, only from target hormone
Estrogenic effects: no aromatisation from compound, some from target hormone

According to many, this is the very best prohormones have to offer, but I beg to differ. Nonetheless my second choice. Because it's a diol it has no aromatisation prior to conversion, significantly lessening the risk of excessive estrogenic formation. It also doesn't make a direct conversion to DHT. Its structurally incapable of doing so. DHT is still a risk, because of the higher amount of testosterine produced and the fact that testosterine (through 5-alpha-reducates) can be converted to DHT in the Sertoli cells. This makes this a definite winner. If it doesn't give you results due to bad conversion, it also won't give you the side effects, because basically if it doesn't convert it can't make estrogens or DHT. That only makes the risk increase with the gains, and makes 4AD one of the safer prohormones.

4-diol is also by far the most anabolic of the three testosterone prohormones, offering almost three times as much conversion as andro and over 20 times higher than DHEA or 5-diol. In the real world that translates to 310% greater increase in testosterone and 256% greater increase in free testosterone (available) than andro (based on results compared to a control group) and 129% more anabolic than 5-diol¹

For testosterone conversion and pure legal anabolic, androgenic action, nothing beats 4-diol at this point. Especially once you pass 30 and your test levels begin to taper, the effects of 4-diol will exert a major effect on both gains and strength. 4-diol, after all, also seems to have a strong pre-workout energizing effect and a positive influence on libido.

 

[JayBro]

1AD

1AD (1-androstene-3beta, 17beta-diol)

Target Hormone: 1-testosterone
Target conversion: (supposedly) very high, because it has a double bond at the 1st carbon and it is a diol version.
Conversion enzyme: 3-ß-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD)
DHT conversion: some converting back to DHT through unknown pathway
Estrogenic effects: None whatsoever

1AD is an oral only compound that converts to a different target hormone altogether, namely 1-testosterone. Early data¹ suggests that 1-testosterone is 700% more anabolic than testosterone. How that translates in real world terms is yet to be determined. From the testimonials (they are limited) I've read the gains are slightly better than those of Nor-diol, so that would be a significant improvement, though not quite as high as the percentage might suggest. There was an initial dione version, but I believe that has been pulled and all 1AD currently available is diol. Again that means no estrogenic conversion prior, but none post-conversion either because 1-test doesn't aromatize. It's a derivative of the androgenic compound DHT, meaning that it has already undergone 5-alpha-reductase and cannot under any circumstances form estrogen.

The androgenicity is still very much an issue. It can convert to DHT via a different pathway (I should say convert back) but it's not known to what extent or what effects it has. So far no one has reported any serious side effects in this nature, but neither has there been any rigorous large-scale testing. The jury is still out on what this means to people who are at risk for things like prostate enlargement and hair loss. Since it is extremely androgenic in other ways as well, this is one aspect that will need further digging to get to the bottom of. I fear this may be the weakness of 1AD.

Oral activity is a great plus. To date orals are the only form that allow serious stacking and proper use of prohormones (more on that later). On the downside a lot of it doesn't survive the liver which makes us toss away a large amount of money spent on prohormones, because the yield is rather low. 1AD may have solved that problem. In steroids people make things 17-alkalated to survive the liver, but in return this increases liver toxicity severely. But a double bond in the one position (hence the name 1-testosterone) ensures a greater amount surviving without the risk of liver toxicity. Chemically you can liken it to the steroid primobolan, which is the same structurally except for an extra methyl-group but also has the double bond in the one position. It functions much in the same way. Making this perhaps the most potent oral prohormone to date. I would estimate oral activity to be in the neighborhood of 30%. That means even relatively small doses can exert decent effects, which will no doubt make up for its preposterous price.

In effects 1-test has been likened more often to Halotestin and trenbolone than Primobolan, qualitatively speaking. I did some research on this and this would mean that most of the gains are lean mass (not huge mass increases, then losing most) making it great to use even when cutting (though obviously the gains will be a lot smaller) and that the amount of water and fat weight is significantly reduced because there is no estrogen effect whatsoever. So blowing up like a balloon is out of the question, which isn't so visually satisfying, but it gets you harder and the gains are for real. That has to count for something. Halotestin is 17-alkalated by the way, so if you go researching don't be frightened by the enormous liver toxicity of Halostestin as I was, since 1AD is not 17-alkalated.

 

[norr]

Yeah, I agree with JayBro on the 5AD; way to estrogenic to make it the base of your cycle. 4AD is a much better choice although if strengh is your goal you should consider 1AD and 4AA (maxteron, masterbolan, etc. it's a DHT precursor).

 

[fhg43]

BUMP

 

[riskybizz007]

When i used the 19Nor i found it to be much more effective when i used it w/ the 5diol. I know studies show it's very estrogenic, but it also shows it to be both anabolic AND it will help upgrade the receptors
"5-diol does however have the added benefit of being able to upgrade the conversion enzyme 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3 HSD) and can improve the rate of conversion of other diol prohormones."

Although people have said your receptors are not "full" until you reach 2g of it, i find at least w/ the 19Nors they are more effective w/ the 5diol.

hope this helps

 

[Flash_75]

try this....and why

week1-8: Andro spray(ergopharm)@800mg/d(400AM/400PM)
...............1-AD@1cap 4Xday w/meals(spread 3hrs apart)
...............ZMA in evenings before sleep.
...............Tribex-500(biotest)6caps per day-AM and lunch

WHY ANDROSPRAY?
--because the half life of oral andro hormones is about 3 hrs. The transdermal will last about 12 hrs. YOU NEED STEADY HORMONE LEVELS FOR GROWTH.(recovery and growth are synonymous)

1-AD?
--seems to be working for most. Its some expensive shit though. Most people report strength gains. Since this is supposed to be more androgenic than the other 2(4-AD,NOR4-AD) it should yield more strength. Up yor dose to as much as you can afford. Remeber to take it very 3 hrs throughout the day.

ZMA?
--the minerals are essential for replenishing enzymes that convert pro-hormones to their active counterparts.

TRIBEX?
--increases natural test. Alot of dumbasses contradict themselves when talking about this product. they say"It didnt do shit, just made me horny as hell"-why would you be more horny? more test perhaps? HELL YES. The problem is that to see significant results T levels must be more than doubled. Tribulus cant do that, but it does increase your natural T production.

Use this for 8 wks. You should get some decent results(+5lbs lbm)
continue on the Tribex for another 4 wks after you stop the pro-hormones.

 

[riskybizz007]

hey i'll vouch for tribulus... keeps your nuts chugging IMO. When i see my nuts ascending like now when taking 4AD, i take some Tribulus and they'll start to descend a bit. Good stuff IMO especially after you're done w/ your cycle.

 

[Par Deus]

JayBro,

You need to, at the very least, mention the name of the author whose (probably copyrighted) material you are plagarizing.